User talk:Captainmike/archive 2007

--The Doctor 14:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Linking
Hi Captainmike, I couldn't help but notice that you've linked beard and cramps on a couple of articles. You probably don't know this but we had a discussion over these articles when they were added several months ago (see here and here) and we decided as a community to delete them. However, if you feel that these have a place here, then please feel free to suggest them on our votes for undeletion page. Thanks :-). --The Doctor 14:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course, the links to our policies and guidelines are here. With regard to the personal attacks against you, I have only just had time to read the threads where they were made and will be mentioning it on Seventy's talk page momentarilly.  We don't wish to scare anybody off from this wiki whatsoever.  The bulk of us are friendly people who are willing to help anybody out, yet in any situation you get the odd few who aren't.  --The Doctor 15:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

WHAT ARE YOU DOING??
Why are you changing all the Categories?? What is your plan??? Cmdr Ljungberg 15:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I explained my plan at user talk:the doctor. -- Captain M.K.B. 15:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, i found a category tree talk page to register that there wre details needing to be worked out with my plan. in specific, i listed the concerns on my userpage. -- Captain M.K.B. 17:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Nomination for Admin
Hey mike, I've nominated you to become an admin. I hope you accept, and if you do, I wish you luck. (-: --The Doctor 22:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Minor Edits
Mike, do you think that when doing small stuff like rearranging categorys that youy can check the "This is a minor edit" box? When I look at the "Recent Changes" page, I tend to use the "Ignore minor edits" function, which is useless if the box hasn't been checked. Thanx!

BTW, IIRC, there is a Vulcan pizzaria in either Spock's World or The Vulcan Academy Murders. --Turtletrekker 07:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good advice, thanks. I think the latter had a pizzeria, they also mentioned Andorian pizza in that novel. -- Captain M.K.B. 13:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Recent revisions
I'm sorry but have you read any of the Crucible novels? It has been stated by the writers and editors that these novels are in a different continuity to the other novels.

Take the visit to Starbase 20 for example. The Enterprise goes there immediately after leaving to be refitted at the Antares Fleet Yards. However, My Brother's Keeper and Harbinger have the Enterprise leaving Delta Vega, proceeding to Starbase 33 where Kirk is debriefed, and then heading for Vanguard for repairs. Now there is a contradition in Harbinger that stated that Vanguard was the first starbase they encountered, but that can be retconned away. Once the Enterprise departs Vanguard they head for Earth where the funeral of Gary Mitchell is conducted. While you could retcon the fact that the Enterprise docked at Starbase 20 enroute to Earth, and then proceeded to the Antares Yards, fair enough, but it isn't our job to reconcile events.

Two more big contradictions are the destruction of the Guardian of Forever in 2270 and the death of Dr. McCoy in 2366. These events can't be reconciled, and if the intentions of the author is to base it in a separate continuity which draws on information from the episodes and movies, then that's they way it is. --The Doctor 14:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the articles need to point this out then -- and use proper POV (like a separate subsection or a background note pointing this out). The "all-italics" didn't explain any of that to me. -- Captain M.K.B. 17:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right, I apologise for my overreaction. I originally wrote the article at 3:44 in the morning, and this dreaded cold is making me crazy.  --The Doctor 00:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It was needed info, doc -- after all, i was completely unaware of the My Brother's Keeper reference to Starbase 33 and the "Harbinger" reference to Starbase 47. All three are contradictory, and should be noted as such. -- Captain M.K.B. 00:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry. Won't do it again )-: --The Doctor 00:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I still appreciate the info, doc. I think I'd like to suggest that parts of Crucible that are not contradictory be presented without the "this is contradictory continuity" message. It was my mistake in thinking that the "Starbase 20 after Delta Vega" was not contradicted -- it is part of three contradictory versions of the same reference, and the third one is from a source that has intentionally been said to 'not follow other continuities'. The parts that don't follow other continuities can definitely keep this note, it was my error in removing it. does the current format clarify that Crucible has disregarded the previous two refs and might have a separate continuity? -- Captain M.K.B. 00:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Not currently no. Misunderstood question.  Yes the note works  better now.  And I definitely agree with leaving the non-contradictory information without the note.  In the first two novels we have been given a vast amount of information about the minor background characters of TOS, including names, and in Tonia Barrows case, a life story.  --The Doctor 00:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Systems?
Hi, for future reference when I and other are creating articles, from your recent moves are you suggesting we do away with system pages and just put that information on the star page? -- 8of5 03:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * ... if there's nothing else that shares the name of the system, the "system" at the end seems extra.


 * Alpha Tauri is the name of a system, not a star.. the individual stars are named Alpha Tauri A, Alpha Tauri B, etc., and haven't been individually mentioned in my memory. -- Captain M.K.B. 03:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, okie kokie, so a single stared system would still be whatever system and another page for the star, but a binary/trinary/etc system would be whatever as the system page and a page for each star? Unless disambiguation was required in which case system would be added back on the end? -- 8of5 03:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Exactly -- and this situation had an added wrinkle -- there were separate articles for Alpha Tauri system and Aldebaran system -- even though they are essentially the same thing. -- Captain M.K.B. 03:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Righto, I'll try to remember, for the problem you just highlighted, looking at the pages I'd go for Alpha Tauri for system page name as lots of things named Aldebran redirect to the planet. Which ever takes precedent one should be a redirect. -- 8of5 03:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Copying from Memory Alpha
Captainmike: Are you sure copying pages from MA is illegal? I thought one of the MA creators said in one of our forums that copying was within the fair use provisions. I know we discourage it, but I wasn't under the impression that it's actually illegal.--Emperorkalan 22:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Its what I was told when I did it. -- Captain M.K.B. 23:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * talk:Pretzel: both Seventy and 8of5 seemed quite intent on characterizing me in the role of a plagiarist -- adding "immoral" to the characterization of my actions. To avoid further slander on my good name, i'll bow to these fine upstanding members of your community and consider it illegal. -- Captain M.K.B.

Thanks for the link, it should help me track down the statement I'm remembering from the MA admin. (I think his clarification was prompted by that exchange).--Emperorkalan 23:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not beyond admitting I could be wrong you know, if someone from MA says it's ok to copy, someone with a far better understanding of the legality of the issue than I, then they are more likely right than I. Incidentally it was Chops who told me it was illegal way back near when I started here (see here). Legal or not glad to see you're upholding the policy as there are plenty of other reasons for it (including personal morality if you ask me). -- 8of5 08:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Admin
You are now an Admin here at Memory Beta, Congratulations!!!. --The Doctor 23:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Doc (and everyone)! -- Captain M.K.B. 23:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Congrats! --Data Noh 20:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

VortaExpert
Hey. Turtletrekker has suggested that we permanently ban VortaExpert due to his repeared ignorance (or supposed ignorance) of the ways of the wiki. This was compounded today when he began posting information from his "fan fiction" onto various articles. However, I wanted to gather all of the admins views with either banning him permanently, or for just a short duration, to see if he finally takes heed of what hes being told. --Mr. Saxon 08:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Consolidated discussion at Forum:I...have had...enough...of YOU!.--Emperorkalan 10:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm just waiting for him to give a good reason. If he posted fan fiction after i logged out last night, i'd say: fry him. -- Captain M.K.B. 13:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Psychonaut
Tristan/Angela is at it again. Is this the fastest way to contact admins? --Jdvelasc 03:14, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

EF Weapons
The names are appropriately capitalized, please stop changing them. --DarkKnight 23:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The redirects I've created are completely appropriate. I only change the article titles that are incorrect. You are restoring incorrect edits as well as incorrect punctuation, please stop. --DarkKnight 23:32, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * They are not proper nouns unless there is a species or company name in the title. Only those words that are proper names should be capitalized. "Etherian" and "Glock" would be capitalized in a weapon name here, however "rifle" or "compressed tachyon" would not as the latter are not proper nouns. -- Captain M.K.B. 23:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I created the articles in question practically right out of Elite Force's manual, which has the correct capitalizations. They are part of the names of each weapon. Leave it. --DarkKnight 23:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Your actions are not appropriate. Please stop altering the pages in question until there has been more discussion


 * Our policy specifies that it is wrong to change an article with an existing history into a redirect, this is why we have the move feature, to avoid article histories being disrupted by changed in the article title.


 * Failure to comply with policy will result in you being banned, please wait for further discussion before your behavior becomes a problem, you can continue worknig on articles here while your suggestions are discussed, but I am blocking the moves right now. -- Captain M.K.B. 23:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe that is out of order for an admin of MB, especially with such a blatantly incorrect move. In practically all online and hard copy sources for the game's weapons, the correct capitalization is what I have adhered to. It is hardly a "behavior" problem. If this persists I will assume that you are taking this personally (for some reason) and will go through the proper channels. In the meantime, I suggest you dig out your game manual. --DarkKnight 23:44, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The way the game manual is formatted does not necessarily dictate how MB has to format articles.


 * And you refusing to halt and wait for other users to join the discussion is in fact a problem that other users have been banned for, I'm going very easy on you so far.


 * Please adhere to the policies I've laid out and please, go through the proper channels if you want to suggest to the community that you want something done differently than I suggest. As it is, resotring the edits your redirects have blanked out is creating a lot of work for me. -- Captain M.K.B. 01:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Regardless of the alleged policy and my redirects, you're altering articles that did not have them before and that I have created, so you could say that you're creating "all that work" for yourself. To be honest, I find this slightly entertaining. --DarkKnight 01:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Uniforms
Sounds good, I welcome any and all assistance that you could provide on the uniform pages (-: --Vote Saxon 10:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Sources citation
Mike, I am confused by some of the recent edits you made such as to Wovogh, Vit 'Iw tay and K'Ehleyr. In each case you removed the italics surrounding a novel's name and replaced it with quotes. But isn't italics correct? It certainly appears that way here: Memory Beta:Cite your sources and italics is standard for academic work as well. --Jdvelasc 15:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I'm trying to perpetuate a standard from other wikis I've worked on, where anything that is a "story in a group of stories" -- like a comic, episode, or novel -- is quotated, and anything that is an "overall series" or a "reference without story component" is italicized. I feel it would be a good standard for MB to adopt, but I'll wait to see how some other discussions go first, as there seems to be a majority supporting erroneous re-naming of video-game articles too, the whole deal is making it difficult for me to figure out how to cite articles here. -- Captain MKB 17:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, in general you are correct that stories within larger works get quotes, but a novel getting quotes? I can almost see the claim that AtfW AtfP is part of the "A Time to..." series, but clearly novels such as Diplomatic Implausibility are stand alone stories.  But even in the first case, parts of explicit larger stories such as The Fellowship of the Ring are always cited using italics and not quotes (at least that I have seen.)  Not sure what other wikis you mean, but both Memory Alpha and Wikipedia cite star trek novels with italics and not quotes.  In fact the novels are the easy case, it is episodes that seem more tricky.  But there the standard seems to be that they are part of the larger series and so get quotes.  If you think I am wrong about this, is there a better place like a forum to be having this discussion?  --Jdvelasc 04:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Memory Alpha does in fact use quotes when citing novels, and Diplomatic Implausibility is part of a series, Star Trek: The Next Generation. -- Captain MKB 14:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to fight over this since it doesn't matter, but if you are supposed to use quotes for novels on Memory Alpha this is not clear at all. The only thing I can find on their Memory Alpha:Policies and guidelines page is that "Books" should be italicized (which without further information seems like novels too).  For the 11 pages that link to Dip Imp, 5 have it in italics and 3 in quotes where italics include every page where it is actually being cited as a source (as opposed to part of some list).  For AtfWAtfP, there are 14 links to it, 7 have it in italics 4 quotes again with every source citation using italics.  --Jdvelasc 21:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Memory Alpha
I'm curious as to how MA handled the online RPG discussion; you mentioned there was one. I, for one, am very interested in how they handle things, since their site makes ours look kind of shabby... I just prefer it here because of the increased wealth of available information. -- Data Noh 17:50, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * We decided to list the books, they originally had articles but we scaled that back because of the large number of books involved. We did in fact determine that the books that bore the "Last Unicorn" imprint should be considered as "licensed", but that the artists' individual unpublished releases (like Sky Princes) had not even been edited or imprinted by LUG, therefore were more in the realm of "fan fiction". -- Captain MKB 17:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What is meant by the "Last Unicorn imprint"? -- Data Noh 18:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Even though they were released for free, online, there weare a publication of a company, Last Unicorn Games. It was determined that even though they were not allowed to sell their materials that used Star Trek's trademarks, they were allowed to give them away for free. But the materials were still a product of the Last Unicorn Games company. Unpublished Gold Key comics were never released as a product of that publisher, unreleased video games were never released as a product of the company that made them, but the Last Unicorn Games role-playing materials were officially released by the company that commissioned their creation. -- Captain MKB 18:11, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay... would the ownership of Last Unicorn not have been reflected somewhere in the product? The PDF file linked to by the page currently in question makes no reference of LUG; maybe it is not one of those considered "licensed". -- Data Noh 18:17, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The PDF was available directly from LUG's site, with the explanation of their loss of the license and the cancellation of the commercial release, but is no longer there. Memory Alpha linked directly to it, which is how I know about that being the original source. All of the LUG ST gaming materials that were released for free were available from that site. Perhaps there is a cache or archive that could attest to this, but I did see it with my own eyes some time ago when MA was creating that article. -- Captain MKB 18:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Other MA thing... I've really been itching to figure out how to incorporate "appearances" dialogs similar to those used on MA (like this), but I don't like the idea of bugging them just to borrow their ideas for our wiki. Do you have any connections over there, or any coding knowledge yourself, that might help with this? Thanks much! -- Data Noh 02:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Style Sheet
Hey Captainmike, I hereby request a change to the style sheet to add a table class rather than adding 200KB extra code to large pages. Thank You (-: --Vote Saxon 22:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Any move on this Mike, I've had a go myself, but I can't fathom it out.  If you could look into this, as the set-up on Federation starships now looks horrible, and the changes could benefit the Stars and star systems pages as well.  Thanks. --Nul Points 02:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think it looks so bad. What is entailed is nameing and describing a table class in the style sheet. Then we just drop that class into each table we want to look like that. I haven't written the code myself but I know a site that uses it. -- Captain MKB 02:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well all that's beyond me, maybe somebody, somewhere can fix it. Thanks. --Nul Points 03:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mike, I don't really understand what it is you are doing but a thought on what I can see the effects are. Your new chart thing is taking all the lines out of the tables you are adding it to, that works well on the starships list where everything is on one line but on the stars lists some of the information is over a couple of lines and there is so much on the pages without the lines it's looking a bit jumbled. --8of5 04:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

which lines? they should all be back now, hit CTRL-f5. -- Captain MKB 04:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)