User talk:AT2Howell

--Dr. John Smith 04:48, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Repeated talk pages
If you have the desire to discuss a topic that would encompass more than one talk page, then it would be best to start a thread in the forum section.

Please stop copying the same talk page over and over. -- Captain MKB 05:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Basic format for new pages
Hello, I appreciate you’ve made it clear you don't intent o go into a great deal of detail with your additions, but would you mind at least starting your entries within the boundaries of this wikia's style. Which is to include the name of the page subject emboldened as close to the start of the page as possible. So: "Fasker was a Kevrata resistance member." rather than just "A Kevrata resistance member." Thank you. --8of5 00:04, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, as you are keeping things to bare minimum, would you mind adding the stub article to the pages you create? Just add this: , that will then mark the page as one that could do with some more work. --8of5 00:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

T'hirada
I see that you reported a problem on the T'hirda page. As I suspect you have discovered, this page has been moved to T'hirada which is the proper spelling and the old page has been deleted. If there are any further problems with this page (or any others) please report them just as you did before. Thank you. --Jdvelasc 15:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In the future, please know that you should never try to "delete" a page by removing all content and saving it, as you did with T'hirda. The correct way to note that a page is incorrect is to either change it to a redirect to the correct spelling, or to place a message on it stating that it needs to be deleted. -- Captain MKB 16:46, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Removing content
Remember also that removing content from talk pages is not allowed. If there is a situation where a page needs to be deleted or moved, please ask, the manner in which you have deleted text has caused "blank" pages to linger in the database, which causes problems with the software. -- Captain MKB 04:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Moving pages
Hi. I noticed that you have left several problem reports asking about moving pages, but nobody has answered your message. Well, if no one minds, I'll take it upon myself to answer.

To move pages just select the Move tab at the top of any editable pages. A new screen will then come up displaying the existing page name, and then asks you to input the new page name, as well as asking a reason for the move.

Once you've entered the data, simply click the Move button and you're away. Happy Moving (: --Bok 23:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Canon-related articles
If you are going to create an article related to a canonically-established character or item, you should include a "Connections" section and a link to Memory Alpha.

You should also check those articles to make sure you're being accurate in your writing. For instance, you wrote Dr. Ann Mulhall was one of McCoy's assistants, when she in fact was in astrobiology. --Seventy 14:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Light of Day
Sorry I didn't notice your questions about moving pages earlier. I see that you have moved "Light of Day" to "Light of the Day". Where does your information about this title come from? Memory Alpha also lists "Light of Day" as the title. --Jdvelasc 03:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, was there a problem with the title of the "PHI-11" page? Perhaps you wanted the title to be "Phi-11"? I am not sure as I haven't seen the comic. --Jdvelasc 04:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

So the inside cover of the comic lists the title as "Light of the Day"? I don't have the comic so I can't check. Another user has noted that on IDW's website the comic is titled "Light of Day". But if it is different in the comic, I would go with the comic. As for Phi-11, I assume that the title should not be in all caps so I am going to go ahead and move that article to the proper title. Please let me know if you think this is wrong. Thanks. --Jdvelasc 15:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If I can track down a scanner, I can send you a picture.  AT2

No, no need for a picture. If you are looking at the comic and you are sure then this is just a case of a disagreement between two different sources which has certainly happened before (even within the same comic!). But there is still the question of which we should use for the main article title. As I mentioned, I would go with the comic. Thanks again. --Jdvelasc 16:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

editing protocols
Hi AT2, I just wanted to take a second to make you aware of some cleanup I did relating to After the Fall articles you are working on.


 * Mandylorian : You created this article with the name "Mandylorians" -- please remember that the names of individual races and cultures are singular here on Memory Beta, to make them easier to link to. I moved the article to the correct name, Mandylorian.


 * Mandylor V : For some reason, you deleted the link to Mandylor V from the After the Fall article.. did you mean to do that? It seemed like an error, so I added the link back in since it looked like it still belonged there, since the Mandylor V article cites After the Fall as a source.


 * After the Fall planets : I created a separate subsection in the After the Fall article for "planets and planetoids", but you moved the list of planets from that section to the subsection called "races and cultures"... was that a mistake? they seem like two different subjects to me. If there's anything you don't understand about subsections, feel free to ask.

Thanks for your time! -- Captain MKB 15:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The trouble was that Mandylore V, Boragia III, and Respler IV-A were only referenced to describe the delegates and their cultures. The planets themselves weren't locations, or much described.  The book gives Mandylore V's people the name of Mandylorians, but it leaves us hanging on the other two.  We could generalize and call them Boragians and Replerians, but those would be guesses, not facts.  Just trying for accuracy.  Not finished with the book yet, so things may change.  AT2 Howell

AT2 - I noticed that you made a large number of edits to Missing in Action saving the changes each time. While nothing terrible happens when you do this, it is preferable to make a bunch of changes all at once and then save the page. If you need to see how it looks after each entry, you can always click on "show preview" at the bottom. One reason that this is better is that I (and I assume others) often look at the "recent changes" page to see which pages have been edited so that I can look for vandals, controversies, etc. It is much harder to do this if there are large numbers of very small changes which fill up the page. Also, if you are making small changes that don't really affect the content of the page, you can click the "minor edit" box at the bottom. Users who look at the recent changes page can ignore minor edits and concentrate their attention on the pages that change the most.

You shouldn't feel that you can't make several changes on the same page such as when you leave and then come back to a page, but it is nice if you can do it all at once. Thanks again for all your great work here. --Jdvelasc 19:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. I edit while I read, but I'll use the minor edit thing.  AT2 Howell

General Trek discussion
AT2 - If you are looking for people to discuss trek with there are lots of good people here, although you should try to restrict long back and forth conversations to somewhere other than this wiki. The ideal place for this (where there are many more trek lovers) is at the Trek BBS []. Questions about political themes in New Frontier or anywhere else for that matter are more than welcome. I can't recall PAD every posting anything there, but tons of authors such as Keith DeCandido, Christopher Bennett, etc. are there all the time and happily answer questions about their books (and others). And of course readers love to chime in themselves.

Also, if you are posting on talk pages or forums, you should sign your posts. To do this, use a button at the top of the editing page that has a signature on it (third from the right - you can also just type four tildes). Not only does this produce a direct link to your user page, but it automatically records the date and time of the post. It took me a while to figure this out so I assume you just didn't know how to do this either. Thanks. --Jdvelasc 18:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Roger that. --AT2Howell 01:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

new articles
I have noticed you are creating numerous new stub articles, that is artiles that are very short and lack a lot of detailed content -- but several new articles you've created exist under different names. A great tool for archivists are the "search" feature and the "What links here" feature -- if you had searched for "sinclair" or "alexander" you might have noticed that we already have an article titled Margaret Sinclair-Alexander -- which is a more detailed duplicate of the article "Sinclair-Alexander" that you just created. There are numerous other novels and episodes that deal with the topics you are writing about, and sometimes it reveals better information than your own assumptions -- for example, by searching this site and the internet in general, i discovered gree-worms are not Cardassian like you said they were, but in fact, Ferengi. Just letting you know about the further possibilities inherent in your contributions -- and to avoid further errors. -- Captain MKB 03:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

incomplete sentence
AT2Howell, I was wondering if you could make a change in your editing habits regarding incomplete sentences -- for example, in the article "T'Prel", you wrote "She was on a covert mission to Devron II" -- this sentence does not have an appropriate verb in it. Did you mean "She went on a covert mission to Devron II"? Or is there an ending to this sentence? ("She was on a covert mission to Devron II, when something happened").

All of these short articles you have created need a lot of fleshing out -- which is why they are marked as "stubs" -- I just hope that you are aware that every time an article is marked as a "stub", it means that eventually someone will have to take the time to fix it, by adding a complete description, categories, tables and other links, et cetera.. -- I hope you are interested in taking part in this process, since you are starting the articles.

In the mean time, even if you are only interested in creating stub articles, please try to make sure they contain complete thoughts and correct information. Thanks! -- Captain MKB 17:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Raifi
Hi AT2Howell, I noticed you created an article about Raifi -- I searched Memory Alpha and found that Raifi was actually Tobin Dax's son -- could you go ahead and edit that article to state that, rather than just saying "Raifi was someone" -- it seems like it would be more appropriate to complete the thought. -- Captain MKB 17:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Bajoran system
Hi AT2Howell, I noticed you created an article about the Bajoran System -- did you know that that article already existed, under the title "Bajoran system"?

Could you please check things like this before going ahead and creating the articles -- I have to merge the articles now, and its quite a bit of work to properly merge the histories.

From now on, please try to create star system article links with the lower-case word "system" -- not "System" -- do you see the difference? please answer. -- Captain MKB 17:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. – AT2Howell 17:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Talk pages
Thank you for finally replying to me -- could you please check out "talk:Buck Rogers" -- another admin has asked a question there about your approach to creating the article, I think it would be more than polite if you answered him, as he is waiting to remove some of the information you added there. -- Captain MKB 18:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

duplicated names
Again, you are creating articles unnecessarily -- Eeiauon (which is misspelled), Shuttlecraft Marsalis and Shuttlecraft Ellington existed already under the names "Eeiauoan" "Marsalis" and "Ellington".

One thing that you could do to prevent this from happening is to use the search bar to find out if you are creating an article with a name that has been used already. Thanks for your time! -- Captain MKB 21:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

new articles
Hey, all the new Uhura's Song articles look great, good work. Are you ever going to finish all of them for us? I'd hate to see all of them remain stubs!

Please remember to add links whenever possible! Thanks! -- Captain MKB 17:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I put everything I remember on a subject, however I do like to put the stub marker on there so that if someone else knows more, they can add it. Like that bit about Nog and Eeiauoan porn.  I had no idea. – AT2Howell 19:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

You should only stub an article if there is something you have knowingly missed, if an article is complete to the best of your knowledge then as far as you're concerned it isn't a stub. However, as the articles you write are so brief and lacking in detail they almost always are stubs... --8of5 21:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Cittions
Please remember to cite your additions. Unless there is a citation for articles on Norse, Swahili and Egyptians you should not be creating pages for them. --8of5 21:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculously small articles
AT2Howell please, you really need to expand your articles more. "Dolphins were a Cetacean on Earth" is really not enough to warrant even bothering to make an article. No reference is given where absolutely no other information is given about the subject, at the very least you must include details of the context of the citation, why were Dolphins, Mediterraneans or Trojan Horses even mentioned in the novel? Your articles tell us nothing, please put more thought into exactly what the sources is providing before churning out articles which are useful to no one. --8of5 10:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I have deleted dolphin for not having enough information. Please continue to work at it at user:AT2Howell/Dolphin and move it to become an article when you have more time to improve it. Thanks for contributing, I hope that I can help you expand more of your articles! -- Captain MKB 20:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If I put in a pargaph about Dolphins from wikipedia, you will say I added too much. If I note only the bare facts, you say I don't have enough.  In that book, Dolphin was used as a reference for the appearance and characteristics of the Dolpheels.  So, not that important, right?  But I seem to remember a talking dolphin in a STNG book years and years ago.  There's bound to be at least a dozen references in the entire history of Star Trek to a frackn dophin.  These will never be brought together unless there is a page.  I did what you asked, I kept the info on a basic, short, and to the reference level.  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? – AT2Howell 20:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

If you put a paragraph from wikipedia we'd say you added too much real world info and stole it from another site to boot. And you just illustrated our point beautifully right there, the context int he novel, in-universe, was to note the similarity to Dolpheels, yet you didn’t make any note of that in the article! --8of5 21:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

To explain some more... you will never get complained at for adding lots of accurate information from a licensed Star Trek source. That is the entire point of this site. What you will get told off for is adding lots of information that has nothing to do with Star Trek.

Have you ever actually bothered to look at other peoples work on articles to see what sort of thing we are looking for? For instance, today I expanded your article on Thak, for which the information you originally provided was this "Doctor Thak was a Gorn.". Now look at that article now, it tells you pretty much everything the comic has to tell about him. That is the sort of detail we do want. --8of5 21:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * So why couldn't you add text that says something along the lines of "Dolphins are cetacean mammals native to Earth. In 2165, Doctor Thak noted that dolphins are very similar in structure and development to dolpheels."


 * That is the kind of context we want you to add. Describe precisely how they were described in the Star Trek book they were mentioned in. If Scotty says that dolphins are ugly in the book you are reading, then put "23rd century engineer Montgomery Scott thought dolphins were ugly creatures." -- that is what we mean when we say add context. Did you look at the article that 8of5 suggested you look at? Please answer.. -- Captain MKB 21:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry response took so long, I had to go out and fix the test cell. Yeah, I checked the article out.  Looks pretty good. – AT2Howell 02:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello, just thought I'd remind you of this conversation as you've slipped into the same habit again. Sabre bear, Dermal regenerator, Cyrano Jones, Hoverskimmer are all so basic it's ridiculous. These sort of things all have a context, what happened to or how was the sabre bear mentioned, what was the dermal regenerator used for and by whom? How was Cyrano Jones mentioned (the current citation should probably be to The Trouble with Tribbles as your article mentions absolutely nothing new established from Forged in Fire), where and how were hoverskimmers used? please take some time to actually write at least the beginnings of proper articles, even the most basic and unexplored subject should b able to generate at least a small paragraph from the context alone. --8of5 15:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm limiting my information to the source I'm on at the time. I know Cyrano was in an episode of TOS and another of TAS, but I'm not on those episodes.  He was minimaly referenced in this book.  At least he's now got a page.  Should a person want to, they could add more info. – AT2Howell 17:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I don't have the Excelsior book, so I can't add more info.. please remember context -- did someone mention Cyrano Jones in the book's dialogue? Was it Sulu? -- Take these two questions I just asked and try to incorporate the answers into the article. The Cyrano Jones article you created really doesn't have enough information, unless you start adding context like the answers to those questions I just asked. Does that make sense to you? -- Captain MKB 17:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, why didn't you add category:Humans to the Cyrano Jones article? ... Did you not get my last message about that? ... could you please start trying to add categories and basic information to your articles? -- Captain MKB 17:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I was on watch last night, so I tried to get caught up on articles. I can add categories thoughout the week.  Was down at NAB Coronado in San Diego all last week (no computer).  I'll have watch again on Saturday, so I'll add categories then if not before. – AT2Howell 17:49, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

That's absolutely fine, as long as you understand that these additions are the kind of thing we expect all the time when you contribute articles to this site.

By the way, I found a preview text of the Excelsior book -- Cyrano Jones was mentioned by Doctor Nej, as part of an important plot point regarding the activation of the mutated Levodian flu... I don't really consider it appropriate to create the article unless you include that description.. even though you aren't writing about Jones's other appearances, please try to include more of the information supplied in the book you are working from.. -- Captain MKB 17:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Categories
Hey, I noticed that you created a large group of articles without categories the other day -- could you please browse the list of categories and see which ones would be appropriate to add to your articles?

For example, every time you create an article about a planet, there's no reason to not add Category:Planets at the bottom of the page. It would really help to bring your articles on par with our current standards. Thanks! -- Captain MKB 15:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Organisation of references
AT2 please note references should be organised in alphabetical order, not just a botched list as you tag more onto the end. And also please be aware that the template should be used to designate references which are only referenced, rather than appear, in a story. See the References section of the style guide for more information. --8of5 05:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It's Organization, with a "Z". I clean those up as I go, but they seem to be everywhere...
 * Any roads, you do realize that you're referencing the reference section, right? I mean, it's good and all in characters, but beyond that is just silly. – AT2Howell 06:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * To quote the style guide: "It should be noted whether or not references were actually featured in the story or just referenced within the story. For instance "The strange new alien rather reminded the Captain of a Gorn", references a Gorn without one actually appearing in the story. Referenced only references should be listed in sub-section of the main references section, headed with the ref template."


 * There are references within the stories, which are only references, rather than appearances. Unfortunate use of the same word maybe, but useful in not making things misleading, dividing the two makes it clear what actually appears in a story, and what is just talked about. --8of5 06:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Like this...

Starships and vehicles referenced

 * Do you see the problem? It's dumb.  It's all "referenced" so why keep noting "referenced"?  How big of a problem would it really cause to have referenced Cardassians just be called Cardassians? – AT2Howell 06:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Well for starters you wouldn't be using all those subsections, just the title provided by the ref template. And the problem is it's misleading to just lump them together. If a user is looking for a comic featuring the Cardassians and find them listed in the races and cultures section of A Matter of Dates, they're going to be disappointed if they decide to go and get that comic and find all they get is a passing reference to them.

The referenced Cardassians are just called Cardassians, it's just made clear they don’t actually feature in the comic. --8of5 06:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Disapointment, eh? Is this a personal story?  Tell you what, I won't delete any more.  Will that make you happy? – AT2Howell 06:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Nope just taking into consideration the potential uses for this site. And indeed, it's on thing for you to be to not bother properly sorting references on pages you are establishing, quite another to actively dismantle properly organiZed pages. --8of5 06:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, don't mean to be a ... yeah. Just been on watch for a few too many hours now.  It's not you. – AT2Howell 06:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Despite all the hubbub, I have to agree with AT2Howell's sentiment that it is absolutely stupid to have a note saying referenced next to certain objects (although acceptable for characters) in a section of an article which deals with references, seems a bit redundant to me. Just my two cents. (-: --The Doctor 09:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I support making the sections known as "referenced only" -- as that will clarify that the characters were not physically present during the story, and did not have dialogue -- they were referenced only. -- Captain MKB 15:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It is not stupid to have a referenced only section in the references for at least some items. For example, some books actually feature appearances of the Enterprise where others merely mention it (I remember when I was on the Enterprise...).  This may lead you to think that there is something wrong with the heading "References", but when opposed to "Characters" it doesn't seem that bad.  I have no perfect plan, but I do like separating the characters and ships at least.  Similarly, for locations it is sometimes nice to know that part of the story actually took place on planet X versus somebody just mentioning something about X in passing.


 * Oh, and just to prevent a fight (and hopefully not start one), "organization" is the American spelling, "organisation" is the British spelling. We have users (and admins) from both.  Is it worth having a general policy about how to deal with these issues?  Or go on a case by case basis?  I think that the 'z' spelling is sometimes used in Britain whereas to Americans, the 's' just looks like bad spelling (if that matters).  --Jdvelasc 19:17, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Should probably have noted... I moved all this to Forum:New page layout proposal, so we can continue the general discussion without filling up AT2's talk page anymore...--8of5 21:50, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Real world information
AT2Howell please think carefully about how much, and the relevance there of, of real world information to articles you create. Recent example of your articles; Lysergic acid diethylamide and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, give large amounts of real world info while providing only passing comment on the cited Star Trek references, is there anything in Star Trek for example that references Project MKULTRA which you have detailed and wikilinked? Ideally you should end articles such as this with an external link to the wikipedia page on the subject where readers can find the full history on subject. Otherwise a more suitable introduction for LSD might be: "Lysergic acid diethylamide, or LSD, was a powerful hallucinogenic drug developed on Earth in the 20th century." and as one of your cited sources seems to relate it to mind control perhaps some note of that property of the drug, but not a fully fledged history of the drug which bares no relevance to the citations you have. --8of5 18:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, i left a similar note at the talk page of the LSD article... do you understand that if ergot was not explicitly mentioned in the book you are reading, then that means you shouldn't write a link to an article about it? Please answer whether you understand this or not... -- Captain MKB 18:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And (sorry for the pile-on, but...) is there any actual reference to the Latter Day Saints at all or that Kirk "confused" LSD and LDS? Without that, all he did was get the letters wrong, and there's no actual reference.--Emperorkalan 19:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You've got me on LDS. That was only a passing mix-up of letters for the sake of humor.  Quite a bit of info on LSD was in the book, and there was a genuine attempt in this section of the book to suggest a real-world connection to the government's research into mental control using LSD (an important topic at the time). – AT2Howell 20:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If that information is truly from the book then you should be citing it as such. And it would help us in not jumping down your throat if you put a little more effort into getting what is in the books onto the database in the first place - if your cited additions gave more information on the context of the citation then we would know that what you add is relevant and therefore acceptable. --8of5 20:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Cookbook articles
AT2 Howell, could you help us by fleshing out some of the newer cookbook articles you have been creating as stubs -- some of them don't quite explin themselves well enough to be considered stub articles..

One that I see a problem with is Ukraine -- all the links to it are referring tgo the Earth nation state, but you've created an article stating it is a town on Vulcan. Could you further explain this, or possibly start a discussion to help us disambiguate the topic? How was Ukraine mentioned in the cookbook? (I don't have a copy, I'm really relying on you to help with this.) -- Captain MKB 20:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ukraine is where Leonard Nimoy's grandmother came from. He insists that it is also a small town in western Vulcan where Spock's grandmother comes from.  It's an in joke, but still in character.  If you ever read either "I am not Spock" or "I am Spock", you will see that Leonard Nimoy considers the character of Spock to be quite real and a seperate personality within him.  I believe Worf and Michael Dorn have a similar relationship. – AT2Howell 20:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's all fine and good -- but we need to address my point -- to separate these two meanings of "Ukraine" for the Memory Beta database.


 * Could you excerpt the part where Spock states the nature of the Vulcan town Ukraine so that I may better understand? -- Captain MKB 20:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a sec, let me change the article. I cracked the book to verify, and found that I got something wrong. – AT2Howell 00:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would be an in joke gone terribly wrong. It wasn't his grandmother, it was his mother.  Amanda was from Seattle, then moved to Shikar.  There is no way she could have "brought it from her village in the Ukraine, which is a small village in Western Vulcan".  I've deleted the bit about Spock, feel free to delete the entire reference if you want.  I don't know how that could have gone so very wrong.  Sorry. – AT2Howell 00:41, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

New articles
Hey, could you slow down and work on some of the details I've been trying to help with on new articles?

Could you stop for a second and go back and work on some of the issues I've been trying to point out, like correctly italicizing/formatting links, sorting categories and stubs, and using the 'what links here' function to gather additional data about the articles you are creating?

You create quite a lot of work for other users and we've asked you numerous times to try and put a little more effort into your articles, I think that you should stop ignoring all this and start working with the community instead of ignoring us.

If something is unclear, I think you could ask how to do it so that others don't have to clean up after you as often. -- Captain MKB 23:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Correct article titles
Please try and make sure you are using correct titles for your articles -- is Marjod's Hammer supposed to be Morjod's Hammer?

Also, when referring to star systems and star clusters, the word "system" and "cluster" are lowercase here on Memory Beta -- please try to take note of this and format your entries according to our style, rather than the style of the book you are taking notes from.

Please try to be more attentive to these issues to avoid making more work for your fellow contributors. -- Captain MKB 17:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Mojod's Hammer was my bad. Cluster was done by someone else, I just supplied the article.  I'll change it from here out.  I knew about system, but cluster was a new one for me. – AT2Howell 17:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Stubs
I'm a little curious why you have stopped marking your articles as stubs -- they are still mostly incomplete.

I've also found a few to be completely incomprehensible because they did not contain complete sentences -- if you need help composing articles in English, we'd prefer that you ask for help BEFORE you go ahead and create them. -- Captain MKB 02:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're the one that said it isn't a stub if all the info is there. When I write an article on Melpopian waffles, I used to put "stub" with the hope that someone knew more about it than just the reference I'd found.  Now, if I find something that I doubt is anywhere else in the Star Trek Universe, I skip the "stub" part because there is no more information. – AT2Howell 14:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I must come in here and wonder why you don't establish more context in your articles. The most amazing one I came across earlier was for the Krenim article in which the only text you wrote was: The Krenim were a Delta Quadrant species known to Neelix. They had candy bars. Now I know not everyone is a Voyager fan so it might have escaped your general knowledge who the Krenim were, but a simple search on here or on Memory Alpha would give you everything you needed to know. I used a bit of that background knowledge from the Krenim and incorporated it into the article. Every other user does this, why make work for others? --The Doctor 14:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I missed most of Voyager. Between college and the war, I was a bit busy.  Hell, I just finished watching the dvd run of Deep Space Nine.  What a show!  So there I am, reading the Cookbook, and there is a Krenim reference like "..as much as the Krenim like their candybars...".  Turns out, there is no article on the Krenim.  So I made one based on the info in my source.  I figure if someone knows more, they'll add to it.  I know, I know "You should check Memory Alpha", but I don't like Memory Alpha, which is why I write here.
 * Fair enough you missed the episodes (great eps by the way), but what you are basically saying is that because you don't like MA we have to go over there to get the information and add it to the article? You're just looking up the information, you're not involved in the wiki or any of the politics involved.  I don't like Microsoft that much but I still have to go on there website to download the latest patches, updates, etc.  Please just try to be more considerate to other users.  --The Doctor 14:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * AT2Howell -- we've already established here that you aren't adding all the information from the Star Trek Cookbook (or whatever reference you are using) to your articles. This is why we need you to mark them as stubs.


 * Did the Melpopian waffles appear as a recipe? Were they mentioned in dialogue? Please, just open a note on the talk page and describe what the page looks like and HOW THEY WERE MENTIONED so we can help you... Where is the context that will give us enough information to confirm this is not a stub?


 * As an example, when you create an article about a Klingon phrase that is in the novel Klingon, the article will be a stub until you describe the way the phrase was mentioned in the book. It doesn't matter what other books are involved -- the fault is your own for not linking to Gowron if Gowron was the one who said the phrase. I've repeated this before but you still do not acknowledge what I am saying to do. Do we need to warn and ban you from the site before you will respond with improved behavior?! -- Captain MKB 14:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm done with the Cookbook, so the next book I'm on I'll try to get the speaker's name in the notes. I am already halfway through New Worlds and New Civilizations, so I'll pick up there.  Also will be starting Vulcan!, James Blish's logs, and the kids books soon. – AT2Howell 14:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

NWNC citations
Hi AT2, you've been citing your entries for New Worlds, New Civilizations wrong, currently you're citations indicate the information comes from two novels, when it is coming from one short story in an anthology. You should cite it like this: (SS ST (The Glories of the Hebitians)) = (SS ST (The Glories of the Hebitians)) --8of5 00:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm fixing it now. – AT2Howell 00:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The Vega passenger list
Hey AT2, I noticed you created the articles for the Vega passenger list but didn't include details about the circumstances -- that the list was the object of Subcommander tr'annhwi's search of the ship.

Coulkd you please try to add that information to those articles? Right now I don't think they have enough context to understand why the passenger list was being brought up. -- Captain MKB 18:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thrax's Surname
In Dawn of the Eagles, Terok Nor security chief acquired a last name: Sa'kat. What do I do to get this to reflect on Thrax's page without screwing up every page that links to him? Nerys Ghemor 18:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Add info to article first, then "move" article to Thrax S'kat. List the reason for move as "last name". All other articles will forward to this new article. – AT2Howell 15:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would assume I use a similar procedure to create an article where there's already one by the same name? For instance, there is a Cardassian ship with an article here named the Tak, but there's also an officer in their fleet by that name I need to write something for.  Similarly, there's already an article for a Tellarite named Gavron, but there's also a Cardassian gul by that name who needs an article.  And...I apologize for sounding stupid, but does it take an admin to move a page, or is that something a regular user can do?  Where do I go when I need to do it? Nerys Ghemor 00:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would use Tak or Tak. Eventually an admin will create a disambiguation page listing both versions.  You can do that part yourself, but I never learned how.  I learned this code by experimenting and looking at other "edit" pages. – AT2Howell 00:34, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, butting in here, to move a page you just click the move tab at the top of the page and it takes you to a page where you can change the article's title and state the reason for the move. As to not screwing up the links, when you move a page it automatically creates a redirect at the former title. Disambiguation pages are easy to create all you do is list the names and give a brief desription like Tak a Cardassian ship, and add  at the bottom of the page.--Long Live the United Earth 00:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * For example, search for "raven". You will be sent to a default page.  Click "Raven (disambiguation)" at the top of the article.  There are all the raven articles. Other searches will bring you strait to the disambiguation page. – AT2Howell 00:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Making a disambiguation involves making a list in the same format as another disambiguation page and then tagging it with the code . Its not an admin thing, any user can do it -- you simply need to add the code  to a list of things having the same name. Now you've learned. -- Captain MKB 01:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Alien words
I've asked you this before and apparently you are disregarding what I said: Please stop creating articles about alien words. As we discussed before, these are not appropriate subjects for single articles.

I'm going to assume you are forgetful and not that you disregard my comments as a means of being disrespectful.

If you want to consider making a Romulan glossary, use the article called Romulan language. Stop creating new articles for silly things like the Romulan word for "oh yes". -- Captain MKB 12:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Look in the back of . There is a six page dictionary.  "Oh yes" is listed.  I guess that wasn't important enough to make the book, eh?  And, I believe we were talking about clothing before.  You know, that topic that now has about a dozen entries and will soon have more?  So what determines what is important?  If it's numbers, then I could keep making "clothing" articles.  If it's attention in the book, then Romulan words would keep getting articles.  You tell me, what all are we supposed to ignore? – AT2Howell 14:18, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that information is all important... but its important enough to be listed WITHOUT CREATING A NEW ARTICLE. This is why we have the Romulan language article. Please look at it and add to it. Do you have a problem editing existing articles? whenever you add information you seem to create a new article -- it seems like you don't want to work on pre-existing articles?


 * The last time I asked you to refrain from doing this with alien language words was on Talk:Ha'DIbaH -- is there any reason that you disregarded my instruction or did you forget?


 * Also, I'm issuing you a WARNING. Do not copy these definitions word for word -- you did this with several of the rank articles -- you should be restating this information as complete sentences, not plagiarizing the book word for word (especially noticable since the definitions were NOT complete sentences -- we require accurate complete sentences in article text. Please use Google to find a site to help you compose complete English sentences if you cannot do so now). Copying directly from the book word for word is plagiarism and will result in banning you from this site.


 * Offhand, I'd say anything that wouldn't get its own article was anything that wouldn't get an article if it happened to be an English word. "Oh yes" won't be an article, so neither would the Romulan word for it. Add it to the glossary at Romulan language.


 * Also, you have been deficient in checking for duplications of these articles -- there were already existing articles for subcommander, antecenturion and others, didn't you notice? Its quite a problem that you are leaving so much scrambled data that needs to be cleaned up by an admin. We'd prefer you enter data as cleanly as possible - by using pre-existing pages rather than creating new ones that need to painstakingly merged with the pages you were supposed to add the information to. If you have a problem with that, speak up or move on. -- Captain MKB 19:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Klingonese article is far from complete. Is it your intention to convert all the Klingon word articles into addtions to that article? – AT2Howell 19:29, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes. -- Captain MKB 19:34, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You do realize how long that will take, don't you? You esentialy have to transcribe the entire Klingon Dictionary. – AT2Howell 19:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know or care how long it will take. If you want to keep adding information like this to the wiki, start doing it in the manner I've described -- if the task gets too large, we can deal with that when we get to it by creating alphabetically sorted sub-articles.


 * It helps when people work together rather than refusing to work on articles with the community -- if an article or summary topic already exists, you have to work on that article rather than creating your own new article. -- Captain MKB 19:49, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Deletions
I'm having a little trouble with all the articles you've been creating with incorrect information -- So I've gone ahead and deleted several of them. If you have any questions about the subjects, a talk page discussion would probably be a good idea before you go ahead and create/recreate these pointless and poorly written articles. Feel free to start such a talk page anytime. -- Captain MKB 02:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * thank you for starting the discussion on talk:The Romulan Way, this should help you in what seems to be your struggle in trying to comprehend the nature of the references you are reading about.


 * just to let you know, the following articles also needed correction, all on points we've tried to counsel you about before, such as duplicating information, linking to irrelevant topics and making incorrect assumptions. These should be examples to you of behaviors you should avoid in the future while using this website.


 * EnnAy, s'Khnialmnae, Aidoann (Romulan), Ford Motor Company, Rolls-Royce.


 * Hopefully this will help you curb your bad behavior here by me informing you of the problems with your contributions. -- Captain MKB 03:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Final warning
I'm leaving this message to inform you that you are on a final warning with regards to your excessive addition of very short, incomprehensible, articles. While that alone would not normally guarantee a harsh rebuke, you have been constantly told about how to format articles and asked to expand upon them. Unfortunately, these calls have largely gone unheeded on your part, leaving others to clean-up your work.

It is this lack of regard for working within a community which has led for many of our active users to call for some form of action to be taken. Captainmike and several others have highlighted your unwillingness to add to preexisting articles or to verify information when asked for it. A recent example is the klugat article: A simple search of both this wiki and Memory Alpha would reveal that the term used in the episode (and countless other licensed sources) was kligat. You could have then redirected klugat to kligat and left a note about the different spelling in the novelization.

However, you did none of those things. I had to read through the novelization, discover that klugat wasn't simply an unverified spelling mistake on your part, and then perform that actions that you should have.

With new users, this wouldn't be a huge problem as everyone has to come to know the ropes, but you've been here long enough and had enough advice to know better. If there isn't a marked improvement in your contributions to the wiki then we will, unhappily, forced to prevent you from editing for a period of time, possibly indefinitely. --The Doctor 12:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry it had to come to this -- we are impressed by the fact that you WANT to contribute so much -- however our concern is that your contributions are POORLY DONE -- we try and try to give you suggestions, but you seem to only want to make ONLY NEW ARTICLES with LITTLE OR NO INFORMATION in them. Its something we've asked you not to do, because we are more interested in working as a community -- meaning that you should be talking, communicating and trying to find ways to improve the short articles you create, rather than just making more. -- Captain MKB 13:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I read constantly. I note every little thing.  No one else does this.  The others are content with main characters, and polishing off articles on Spock.  If I didn't report on every book I read, no one else would.  Or, they would do it badly.  As I have said a hundred times, if you think there should be more information to an article, add it.  I don't know everything, I just think that if a book is to be entered into the wiki, it should be done correctly.  This picking and choosing of what information we should enter goes entirely against the theory of a searchable database.  If I spent months on each book, and left the others I read in the mean time to other people, who would do it?  Who would record a novel so well that I wouldn't have to go after them and add in all the links they "forgot"?  Show me this person, and I will coordinate with them.  Every other book I read, they can cover, and I will spend twice as much time on my articles.  Is there any other person in this wiki as thorough as I am with entries?  If there is, and they write better articles while they're at it, introduce me.  I'm more a reporter than a novelist.  In my job, I write after action reports, not tech manuals. – AT2Howell 14:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"I just think that if a book is to be entered into the wiki, it should be done correctly" - That is precisely our problem with your contributions, you are not doing them correctly, you rush out incomplete, sometimes incomprehensible articles rather than spending the time to get the information from the source (it is not a matter of you knowing everything, it's you using the information given to you by the source, possibly cross referenced with information already on this wiki). I am one such person who writes on ever subject given by a book or comic, and I do indeed sometimes take months to do that, because the articles I add are as complete as I can make them. It would be preferable for you to take that time to properly cover information from fewer sources rather than making many many articles which are all but useless due to under development to cover topics from every single book you read. --8of5 16:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with 8of5, the article needs to be more complete to have any value. Take for example Kennelly: You had "Vice Admiral Kennelly was a Starfleet flag officer familiar with Ro Laren."  All you would have had to do was go to Memory Alpha and look him up and you could have written a more complete article, but since you apparently don't like MA I had to do it for you.  That is what the others are trying to point out to you; others are being forced to do simple work for you.  Also, I see no problem "polishing off" articles like Spock.  He is an important character and people are probably more interested in him than the passengers of the Vega.--Long Live the United Earth 16:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn't "Memory Beta, the Memory Alpha clone". There was no article here for the guy.  I had a very limited source.  For all I knew, that could have been the only written source for the guy.  Do we intend to have a page for every page on Alpha plus some?  And yes, Spock is great and all.  What are the chances someone read his name in a book and has no idea who he is?  Now, if someone reads about some obscure species and wants to know if there is more information, they'd look here.  If I wrote the article, yes, it would be short.  But at least there would be an article.  Most of the pages on this wiki are either blank or all the links are in red.  I'm slowly fixing that.  I still have to finish two more books before I get to .  By then do you think it will be well documented by then, or will I have to take notes on that one too? – AT2Howell 22:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried, I really did. I read all three of the "Khan" novels, thinking that I could take my time working on their pages afterword.  I had planned on reading Greater Than the Sum while working on those pages.  I decided not to add to that page, assuming everyone else could cover that one.  I've gotten to page 66.  I've already noticed so many references missing from the page that I might start over, this time taking notes.  Please tell me someone else is already working on this novel.  Please? – AT2Howell 21:19, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't I just ordered the book yesterday (damn, I wish we had transporters). If you decide to add articles please give a little more detail than before and a spoiler warning may also be needed since the book came out relatively recently (but I'm not sure about that).--Long Live the United Earth 21:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've started taking notes, but don't worry, I won't start on the page until after I finish pages on the three Khan novels. With any luck, by then the page for Greater Than the Sum will be mostly complete.  I'll then add whatever minor things were left out.  I must warn you, there are many, many references in that book. – AT2Howell 23:37, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From now on, you should check if a subject is covered on Memory Alpha before you create the article -- not to duplicate their articles, but to provide a correct citation. You should do this for every article you create, no exceptions. For this one, you would have been able to cite the episode "Ensign Ro" for the article, and you should be checking so that you can know whether or not to add a "{memoryalpha}}" link -- which you should do one every article you create that is duplicated on Memory Alpha. -- Captain MKB 23:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you were writing an "after action report" about the Vega passenger list, would you REALLY leave out all the information about how an enemy combatant raided the computer for that list?!? Each one of those characters' articles should have an explanation why the Subcommander was looking through the list in the first place. The articles have NO CONTEXT right now (even though I asked for it) -- you need to explain the scene from the book. I've told you this before -- explain the scene in order to add context. This would make you a "reporter" writing a decent short article. -- Captain MKB 18:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I do still plan to go back and add to those. I intended to ask you how you would sum up the situation in a line or two. – AT2Howell 22:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I would expect a decent description to be like "So-and-so's name on the passenger list was part of the data information uncovered by Romulan Subcommander So-and-so when he boarded Vega in 2276." (with links and formatting appropriately added)


 * In the future, you need to show the initiative to write sentences like this on your own before the articles are created, or ask how to state it before the articles are created. If you do not have the time or initiative to ask first or create such a sentence on your own, then you do not have enough time or initiative to create a new article to Memory Beta. -- Captain MKB 23:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Classes on episode pages
Those classes are supposed to be on those episode pages according to an admin. I'm fixing those articles, please don't do it again. Also, next time you have problems with a mistake I make on several articles contact me on my talk page. Thank You.--Long Live the United Earth 23:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The "official" format does not require it. Please show me where in the text of each reference the class is listed.  Granted, the shuttle craft class is listed in one source, but it already appears elsewhere on the page.  Every publication under the sun does not have the words "Constitution class" in it.  These pages are not for your own personal extrapolation, they must be grounded in the reference material.  Show me. – AT2Howell 00:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless you contend that this wiki is based on your own personal knowledge rather than sources, please change it back at once. Thank you. – AT2Howell 00:40, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

This is what 8of5 told me to do. If you wish to argue the point talk to him, and tell me the results.--Long Live the United Earth 00:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I thought it was you. Let me ask your opinion then, if the information is not listed in the source for the page, why would it be listed on the page? – AT2Howell 00:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't really know. I took them off the first time through, but I wasn't doing it correctly so I'm fixing them now and I was told the classes go there.--Long Live the United Earth 00:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, I won't change it. I'll wait to hear from 8of5 before taking any further action.  It's no big thing. – AT2Howell 00:55, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

OK. I also want to say that some of those classes were in the episodes, and since the pages are for episodes and their novelizations:). Also, I want to apologize for jumping down your throat ffor something so minor, I'd been working on these all day and was afraid I would have to go back through all of them.  And don't worry if 8of5 changes it just tell me I'll go back and change everything (it's kinda become my pet project).--Long Live the United Earth 01:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In the case of a book as you suggested on my talk page it would indeed be impossible to verify the class if it were not directly referenced by name. However in the case of an episode/comic/anything else with a visual element you can see the class of ship. Much the same as you would be right to add characters to the reference section who are not named in an episode or comic put still appear - say if Uhura just appeared in the background on the bridge, she might have no lines, no one may say her name, but she is there. --8of5 02:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll give. Visual references count. – AT2Howell 02:35, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

stub templates
I just wanted to tell you that their are several stub templates you can use that classify articles in stub categories by article type (for example gets you  ). This just makes it easier for a person to find an article type they want to expand (like if they just want to work on planet articles they can look at the planet stub category). I just wanted to tell you this since you create so many stubs, this will make it easier for people to expand them. The list of these speciality stub templates can be found under S in Category:Memory Beta message templates. Thanks!--Long Live the United Earth 22:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

FYI
FYI... shit stirring. You may have some issues with some admins but don't try and stir it up for others. Besides which, Seventy probably knows and he probably doesn't care. End of. --The Doctor 14:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, just letting a brother know. It ain't polite to talk about people.  At least let the man know he's a hot topic.  And who do I have a problem with?  I like the Capt. – AT2Howell 15:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I know butting in is bad, but I just wanted to say see Talk:A Less Perfect Union, I'm pretty sure Seventy knows about the talking. Also, the only admin doing the talking was the Capt. and that was more or less how to deal with a disrespectful user (and I don't really think Seventy was that disrespectful; just reasoning it out) and two other admins responded asking for further proof of what Mike called a continuing problem.  Those discussions haven't really been active for at least a day. So, I'm forced to agree with the doctor; your stirring up shit.--Long Live the United Earth 19:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, this one should go away. I have a list of the various unacceptable things I've seen going on here and I've actually back-burnered answering that query -- because I'm not interested in making a major issue about anything right now, I'm more interested in working on articles.


 * The reason other admins have been informed is because I'm not going to take part in users' insult games anymore, so the other admins will need to take over for me if it comes to that point. Anyone who knows how to use recentchanges could and has seen that, there's no reason for you to involve yourself. -- Captain MKB 19:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeth
Well as you can imagine we have a few Elizabeth's in Britain. Some clarification would help? Although if you mean the Queen then her full name is Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Mountbatten-Windsor. Although any article with her name should be Elizabeth II. --The Doctor 08:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I went ahead and used Elizabeth II. – AT2Howell 16:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)