Memory Beta:Community Portal

Masao Okazaki's Starfleet Museum
The USS Voyager article currently lists "The Daedalus-class vessel USS Voyager (NCC-157) in service in the 22nd century." A quick Google search tells me that the source of this information is from The Starfleet Museum, a non-licensed source. I have suggested before that non-licensed materials might in the future be included after a case-by-case vote. Since I believe this source warrants consideration, I'm going to start the first of those votes. --Chops 03:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Affirmative vote. Due to discrepancies with Enterprise, which came later, I suggest that the source of this material be clearly labeled on applicable pages and sections. --Chops 03:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that there is another wikicity, "stexpanded" that specializes in fan fiction style pieces like fan-maintained websites and underground publications -- information from sources not authorized by Paramount really falls under "fan fiction" when you think about it -- after all, all the novels and comics this here Non-Canon wiki focuses on are all licensed to be published and sold by the owners of the franchise. Not-for-profit, fan-generated type info is really difficult to cite, if its never been published for sale. (This then leaves a gray area for non-Star Trek publications like Ships of the Star Fleet?) -- Captain M.K. Barteltalk 14:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If we accept a "gray area" beyond this site's stated "canon + licensed" scope (and there's a few things I think would merit inclusion), we'd need some criteria to distinguish such material from pure fanon. Publication has been mentioned above. Any restrictions on that? And/or any others? --Emperorkalan 18:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Years
We have many year pages that need to be made. I was wondering which year-template to use, because I don't want to use the exact one Memory Alpha uses, but any year bar would be similar. Suggestions? Comments? Mics.? - Lieutenant Ayala 04:54, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think using the same layout would be copying them, because it's just common sense the way theirs works. I'm curious though - is it even possible to chart the year that things in books and games occurred? --Schrei 20:12, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Most newer books give timeframes, so that's not a problem. For the older books I was thinking of using the Official Novel Chronology and some fan efforts, and noting where they differed.


 * One thing that's needed is a means to distinguish between real-life dates (for publication/release/airing dates, important dates for production/actors/crew/etc.) and for fictional timeline dates. May I suggest fictional dates use the existing system (e.g., 1997 ) while real dates append "(real)" after the date (e.g., 1997 (real) )? --Emperorkalan 01:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I withdraw my previous suggestion, and replace it with another: an "In The Real World" section (#1 heading) for those years where we need to make a distinction. I used 1993 as an (not completed) example. Thoughts? --Emperorkalan 18:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Another subject: the layout of Year articles. Right now the format seems to be Events, Stories, Promotions and Transfers, and Pictures from XXXX. Would it be better to group all the "in universe" items together (i.e., moving Stories to the last spot, or at least moving "Promotions and Transfers" to directly follow "Events"(They are, after all, a subset of events.))? Does that sound like a logical grouping? or just nnedless busywork?

Site Logo
Well, now at least the Community Portal link links to something. The prefix could be catchier than "Non-canon Star Trek Wiki" - Maybe some day this will be a sister project for MA and it can be Memory Beta. ;) --Schrei 02:25, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I quite like Memory Beta. Or how about Memory Omega? Or maybe Star Trek: Expanded Universe is more self-explanatory?--Mantrid 07:45, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * I also like "Memory Beta" alot, if a little vague. And I am quite aware of the rather uncatchyness of "The Non-canon Star Trek Wikicity". - Lieutenant Ayala 10:46, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * While I would like "Memory Beta", i think we'll wait and see if we can improve this database first before changing the name, so at current I think the one with the current name is best, and has been uploaded. - Lieutenant Ayala 21:11, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

It's possible to replace the Wikicities logo above the search bar by uploading an image called Search_logo.png - see for an example. Maybe you could make something for that too? --Schrei 05:33, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC) I was thinking of putting UN/Starfleet-esque ivy branches around the oval with the stars and the Beta symbol but was too lazy at the time to figure it out. If you guys like it I could certainly look into it. Also if anyone has any other suggestion on how I could improve it, please tell me. Dr. D 01:51, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * For the record, I have no affiliation with that site and I'm not sure what exactly it's about (see Furry:Furry). --Schrei 05:35, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I was just messing around on Fireworks and I thought I'd try my hand at a possinle site logo. I don't know what you guys think....

Proposed Revision to Book Template
I know that I didn't create this wiki and that I'm new around here, but might I suggest that if the wiki was more visually attractive, it might attract more contributors and users. At the moment the book template doesn't allow for the book cover to be displayed, which is a shame. Also the lack of colour makes the pages look a bit dull. I've created a 'dummy' page in Sandbox to show how the templates might look (adapted from what they use on the Star Wars wiki). Have a look and see what you think. I'd be happy to make more contributions and create more pages for the books like this.--Mantrid 07:42, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Nice. As the current template doesn't account for book covers, (as a wiki that is based mostly around the books) it seems we should have one. The template looks good! - Lieutenant Ayala 10:46, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Mantrid, just go with the Wikipedia saying: Be bold, because if Mr. Ayala up there hadn't done that, this Wiki would probably be on the Wikis Needing Adoption page on Wikicities. --Schrei 04:49, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Forum?
I've been enjoying your site, and will be uploading entries from my favorite Star Trek books as soon as I'm able. I would like to share my thoughts and feeling about this site on a much less official stage than the community portal. Is there any place where site members can talk? A forum, or private message system? Failing all of that, I'd settle for a list of IM adresses. There should be some way to disscuss ideas without clogging up the information pages, or creating endless debates on the discussion pages. Keras 19:23, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Better late than never responding to this, I guess. With apologies to Memory Alpha, we might as well call it Non-canon Star Trek Wiki:Ten Forward.  If you've got something to discuss informally, go ahead and start it up. --Chops 21:27, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Conflicts
I was about to begin an entry (which I might still type up anyway) about a character when I realized there were about three or four different sources that contradicted each other.

Now, I always just figured that I could make alternate timelines, or some other such excuse to get the article in, but there's two important questions;

1. Which timeline is the real one? Let's say book A says one thing and book B says something that's completely opposite. Who do we believe? Well, I would guess it's up to the author of the article on a first come/first serve basis. But what happens to...

2. What happens to books that are refuted by CANON information? Ah, there's the heart of the matter. I suppose there's two different types of conflicts. Here are two examples;

'Ship of the Line' had numerous claims later refuted by canon information. The largest was probably the building site of the Enterprise - E. However, while numerous, none of these really affected the book. In other words, if the author had gotten it right, it wouldn't really have changed the events in the book to the point where we'd notice.

The New Frontier series on the other hand, has a bigger problem. Huge amounts of information that the novels depend on are refuted. The most major is probably that Shelby, the first officer and probably the second-most important character in the novel, is quite clearly the commander of the Sutherland in 2374, when she is suppose to be quite indisposed. That's just one of many problems.

Now, the problem is complicated: What happens if I really like this book, but the events that transpired in it were now impossible? Well, maybe we can work around it. Using New Frontier as an example again (since it's one of the few series I've actually read), I guess the first four-book New Frontier series is ok, before David expanded it into about a dozen more, since most everything that happens there is ok. We could also use them as gap-fillers, using information recieved in these novels to plug holes in information we can't get anywhere else. Anything that refutes the rest can be used as a primary, but certain events can be used as a way of expanding the character. For example, if a character makes a comment about themselves or their career in a refuted book, but it's not contradiced anywhere else, use it in your article as a way of filling a gap (cited as a refuted source, of course).

Anyway, just some musings I'd appriciate some feedback on.


 * I've been taking Pocket books' authors' examples on how to retcon these conflicts. Many apparent conflicts can be reconciled, though it's not immediately obvious how.  For example, when Captain Shelby turned up on the Sutherland, Peter David mentioned in a later New Frontier that there were two unrelated Shelbys in Starfleet.  If in doubt, note both possibilities in the article.  If a plot point relies on a contradictory fact or another source also uses it, that version gets preference.


 * I'm aware that there are some conflicts that can't possibly be reconciled. A case in point is Starfleet: Year One, which was concieved shortly before Enterprise, but is completely contradictory from the plot to the minor details.  Pocket Books admits that this book takes place in an alternate timeline or some such thing.  I'm very hesitant to apply this excuse to other problems unless absolutely necessary.


 * On the other hand, there's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Diane Duane and J.M. Ford came up with extrapolations of Romulans and Klingons, respectively, that were completely contradictory with the later depictions in TNG.  They made complete cultural ethos and languages for aliens we had only seen in less than a dozen episodes.  However, references to ch'Rihan and klin zha pop up in modern books.  So by all means, use information from all the books, even if they are otherwise contradictory.


 * Hope this helps, --Chops 03:52, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * How about this, then; I'll write the passage up using what is not contradicted, then afterwards I'll create a new section in which I explain there's more than one timeline for the character and go on from there as if that timeline were correct.


 * The only other thing I can think of is starting over again in the new section, which I also wouldn't mind. What would you suggest?  Keras 19:51, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. Go for it. --Chops 21:22, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Main Page Question
I was thinking about maybe trying to expand it a little and wondered what you guys thought. Since theres only like a book a month or so coming out now, I was thinking about replacing that blurb on The Red King with one on String Theory book 2, as that seems to be december's main offering and adding a brief mention to this month's SCE book. Think that would work? Also, should we try listing some of the larger book series on the main page too (like S.C.E., New Frontier, and maybe Stargazer)?


 * Agreed. It's not like they're coming out with a new book every week, and I've already seen enough of The Red King.  Keras 18:33, 20 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Template Question
So I was checking out memory alpha the other day and noticed that captains of the enterprise template. Think theres some way we could do something like that over here? like adding Bateson to the E or maybe making an Excalibur Template (Korsmo/Calhoun/Riker), then Calhoun for the A. Could be cool, unfortunately I have no idea how to do that --Arcarsenal 02:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

In a similar vein, is ther any page that lists all templates used here? It can be a real pain trying to turn up the right page to edit in additions, etc. --Emperorkalan 22:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

maybe making an Excalibur Template (Korsmo/Calhoun/Riker), 

Don't forget Morgen, who stepped down from the Excalibur in mid-2367 as per MJF's Reunion. When I made this connection, I was amazed at how well MJF, PAD, and TNG's use of the Excalibur name fit together.

Morgen steps down in 2367 (MJF), the ship is without an official captain and crew for several months and Riker is temporarily given command in early 2368 during the Klingon civil war (TNG), and soon after that, Korsmo takes over (PAD). --Turtletrekker

Seal of the President
You know, I hate to ask this, but the current jpg of the Seal of the Federation President is so small, I'm really wondering if there's anywhere we can shop around to find a bigger depiction of it with better resolution. Anyone know of any such place? -- Sci 10:34 7 April 2006 UTC
 * Nevermind on the above; I've found and added a larger seal. It doesn't quite have the depth of color that the original version had, but it's much brighter and has a larger resolution. -- Sci 02:11 8 April 2006 UTC

Picture Copyrights
Several copyrighted pictures are being used without permission on this site, seemingly in violation of Wikicities rules and regulations. Particularly:
 * Image:Chateau Thelian.jpg
 * Image:ChristineVale.jpg
 * Image:LasVegas.jpg
 * Image:Akyazi.jpg
 * Image:Min zife.jpg

There is also one of President Kennedy out there, which brings me to the point that some of these pictures aren't even remotely related to Star Trek or anything in this Wiki (the CSI image, for example) Some of these need to be either replaced with cover image-croppings, or left picture-less I believe. - Dark Lighter 23:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

What's in a name? Klingon D7s
How are we going to handle D7s? Is it really a class? or more of a design family, with multiple classes (the nearest Federation equivalent would be the Miranda/Soyuz class)? There are two conflicting licensed sources for the Klingon names for the TOS version (Klolode from one of the TAS novelizations, and K't'agga from the FASA RPG. And is the K't'inga a D7 or not? (I know it's different from the TOD design, but does it count as a D7?)

I propose listing "D7" as the design family, with multiple variants and upgrades that are known by the various class names. But what do others think?--Emperorkalan 01:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

That is a good idea, but if I recall the Klingon D7's have been assigned the name Klolode-class, and the Romulan D7's have been called the Akif-class. I cannot recall were these designations came from, but I think we could do seperate pages for the different types, and a D7 disambiguation page. I have also created a navigation bar for the Klolode-class.

--Thanks, Bok2384
 * I've seen it. In fact, it's what prompted my post: Why should the TOS D7's be the Klolode-class and not the K't'agga? What makes one source more right than the other? And if they're different classes, how do you know which ships on the navigation bar are which? A disambiguation page was basically what I had inmind. As for the navigation bar, may I suggest changing it to a generalized D7 bar, without distinguishing any particular class name (since in most cases it's unstated anyway).--Emperorkalan 12:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I didn't realise there was a K't'agga designation. I will change the template now. --Bok2384 13:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The "USS" in Federation Ship Names
Okay, we've got a minor stylistic conflict here that we might like to see resolved. When I put a ship's name on the Wiki, I follow the style used in the Star Trek novels -- that is, I put: USS Shipname. However, many on the wiki seem to prefer keeping the "USS" unitalicized: USS Shipname. To be fair, that is the style favored by many of the 1980s-era novels. Do we want to have a consensus on this? -- Sci 05:33 20 April 2006 UTC