User talk:8of5/Archive II

Older talk: User talk:8of5/Archive

Please post new stuff after the beep. *BEEP*

Community Article
Thanks for the info about this project, it does seem like there's not a lot of interest, but I figure, what the heck. The page you referred me to, Template:Community article, says it's locked, which makes sense. Is there a way I can get at it? -- Data Noh 03:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Adminship
Hi Eight, I was wondering if you would be willing to nominate me for an admin position. -- Data Noh 16:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers! -- Data Noh 18:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

IDW comics
Hey 8of5, you seem to be the person to ask about the new range of IDW comics. I was wondering if the collections will be available in the UK. Although I have the first two issues from The Space Between, I have to travel to a specialist comics shop in Birmingham, which I only get chance to visit every couple of months, so will probably miss out. However, if the collections become available, then I will be able to continue to enjoy these great comics. Thanks in advance (-: --Vote Saxon 08:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info, I'd hate to miss out on the rest of the series, and the promising Klingon series. (-: --Nul Points 02:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Fleetops
Sorry, for not paying attention to the Memory-Beta rules. Could you please send me the last revision of Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations so that I can post it to http://stexpanded.wikia.com - Thanks --Matthias 18:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

An idea
Hey 8of5 and welcome back. I was looking over your blog the other day and was impressed by the stuff you were able to learn about and include, stuff which you wouldn't normally find on the other Trek news sites.

Anyways, this got me thinking that maybe we could do a similar thing with the Current events page. Currently the page lies stagnant, but I wondered if we could do a similar thing to your blog with the page as a sort of news page, possibly even writing reviews of products ourselves. Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter (-: --Dr. John Smith 22:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and thanks, I do my best, I got frustrated that other sites don’t bother with all the stuff I cover, generally treating Trek licensed products as a curiosity to maybe include as a foot note. So I did myself giving the stuff that's keeping Trek alive the full attention it deserves.


 * Sounds like a good idea, we'd have to set out exactly what to cover, for instance one of my blog posts recently was announcing who the writers and artists will be on the next manga book, that info alone might not warrant a news slot here as it will just be added to the books page anyway. -- 8of5 03:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Great news (-:. I think we would have to include an item on the page for when official blurbs and covers are released on the TrekBBS.  Maybe a review area of recently released products would also be good.  When new writers for things are always announced, you're right it doesn't pay to list them twice, but, just a short note to say that the writers have been announced, and link them to the appropriate article.  Anyway, we should both come up with a list of what we'd like to see, and what we wouldn't.  I was thinking of using the ideas that you have in your blog, with the short and sweet style of the Outpost Gallifrey news page.  --Dr. John Smith 09:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

SCE books
I just discovered that you are following behind me on changing the SCE omnibus pages. I like the "contents" section much better than "information" (which I liked better than summary) but I don't like the "Starfleet Corps of Engineers No. 2", etc. in the series box of the novel template. To me, SCE #2 refers to Fatal Error. It was originally "No Compendium 2" which is why I was changing them in the first place. Perhaps there is a better way to do this? --Jdvelasc 18:32, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Collision Course cover
Ha! This round goes to me! Better luck next time, my friend! (-; --Turtletrekker 17:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * >shakes fist menacingly<, lol, maybe you're tortoisey relatives helped out.--8of5 17:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

why are you deleting everything I write?
?? Vladar86

re: there was no reason when you deleted changes in references on Shuttlepod One except that links are big (??) and for WWI I thing masoning of Serbia should stay because invasion is cause of ht war Vladar86

Reply to my talk page: Quote 8of5 ["Yes, as I explained in the above section the data you added was unnecessary, the links all already worked perfectly.]

-I added whole new reference for Serbo-Croatians, not some links Vladar86

Format for titles
Hey there. I know this has been discussed numerous times before with regards to the formatting of titles. After studying the Manual of Style on Wikipedia they have stated that italics be used for novels, comics, computer games, films, ship s, ship classes and television series. Quotation marks are to be placed around episodes of a television series and short stories.

Now definitive reasons haven't been given, but this is what the original Manual of Style was based upon, and is the standard which every other wiki I have visited use. A good example would be the Doctor Who wiki where the original series serials are noted in italics because they contain many episodes, but the new series episode titles are given in quotation marks.

While it has been suggested that the episodes are put in quotations because they are part of a larger work, that would also mean that all the other media would be placed in quotation marks as well. But I propose we follow the "industry" standard as it were. You probably won't agree, but I thought I would bring it up anyway in the hopes of resolving this thing. (-: --Dr. John Smith 09:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Another important question for us is about individual comic titles. The examples given on the Wikipedia page wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style (titles) are all series like The Amazing Spider Man or The Dark Knight Returns. This isn't clearly addressed there, but I would think that we should treat them like episode titles (which I think should be in quotes). It is briefly mentioned on the talk page at where the last poster suggests that individual stories should be in quotes. Using this convention, here are some possibilities any of which I think are acceptable (variations of these are okay to):
 * (Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Space Between #1: "History Lesson")
 * (TNG: The Space Between - "History Lesson")
 * (The Space Between: "History Lesson")

etc. --Jdvelasc 15:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you saying episodes should or should not be in quotes? My problem with episodes being in quotes is that it's a double standard, a TNG episode is no more or less part of a series than a TNG novel or comic (which seems to be what you are arguing too?) so why should it get singled out? A novel in a miniseries is clearly part of a series (the miniseries), yet according to previous discussions novels should never be placed in quotes because they're special. These conventions break their own rules, and until we set those rules I'm reluctant to follow them.


 * Per comics, similar problems, like above, individual issues in a miniseries are clearly part of a larger work, the miniseries, but what about the bigger on-going series, should they be in quotes too? Or what about one-shots?


 * And are you suggesting those forms should be how we cite Jdvelasc, because that breaks our current citation standard (SERIES media: Title), a standard which I think negates the necessity for some of this quotes/italics non-sense anyway as it clearly shows they are all part of a larger series and all of a certain media. And I don’t put the miniseries title in the citation too because it makes them unnecessarily long, the citation is to the specific issue in the miniseries, if you click the link to that issue you can find what the miniseries is.


 * Anyway, Doc I'm not entirely sure what your actual proposal was there so I don't know if I agree or not. :) --8of5 06:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Reading what I wrote again I'm confused myself, but my main proposal initially, was that we try and follow the "industry standard" policy which is used on every other wiki, but after reading your statement, it highlighted how we would be a different case as nearly all media lines are part of a series, bar the odd novel, it would suggest that we place the series, i.e. TNG in italics but the title "The Buried Age" in quotation marks. But what they hey, looks like we'll never decide conclusively, so I'll stick to quotation marks, and others will put italics hey (-: --Dr. John Smith 06:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh no no, lets get this sorted pleease. My stance is that everything is part of a Star Trek series so we should ignore that as something to be inclusive of and things in quotes should be those printed in an anthology or those which are part of a miniseries. Which in that case would make "The Buried Age" an odd case, as it's a TNG novel in the TLE series (which is a miniseries really) --8of5 07:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * With that in mind, I've just been over the format which they use at Wookiepedia (the Star Wars wiki), which would have a similar set-up to what we have with several different series and a great big umbrella brand. It appears that they use the method which you suggest and have been using with italics for all separate media, but quotation marks for short stories and collected stories.  --Dr. John Smith 15:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That was big Wookie shaped distraction... Well I've learnt some nice stuff about Jedi knights, I couldn't see anything in quotes there at all. Anyway, saying we adopted that, that would mean short stories and novels printed in anthologies would be the only things in quotes? Or do miniseries also count as collected stories?

I am afraid that I am just not seeing why this is so confusing. It is certainly possible to disagree with my "proposal", but the proposal should be quite clear. I was proposing that we follow Wikipedia (and Memory Alpha and Wookieepedia) by putting italics around novels and series and quotes around episode titles and short story titles. For now, ignore comics. You say this violates that "our current citation standard (SERIES media: Title)" but I don't know where you are referring to. Our style page: Memory Beta:Style is exactly what I have been following. Notice that in our own example, A Time for War, A Time for Peace is in italics while "Tears of the Prophets" is in quotes. I am saying that this is exactly as it should be.

Now, The doctor says that Wookieepedia uses italics for "all separate media" but I am not sure what that means. They follow Wikipedia exactly as well in putting italics around novels and series and quotes around television episodes (such as Star Wars: Droids: "The White Witch") I hope that the proposal on everything but comics is now quite clear. Namely, follow our own examples on our own style page.

There is now one thing left - comics. Comic series should be put in italics (like The Space Between and Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi). But what about individual comic titles? The problem here is that Wikipedia does not have a stated policy on their style page (though it has been discussed on the talk page). Here, I was suggesting that comics be treated just like episodes (namely, put in quotation marks as I say, and give examples of, above). Wookiepedia places them in italics (like Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of the Sith 1: Into the Unknown)

I hope that my proposal is now clear. Follow our manual of style and in addition, put individual comic titles in quotes. Now for the arguments. As was discussed at length in the Forum:WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? page, novels are always put in italics. 8of5 suggests that novels such as Spock's World are part of a larger series (Star Trek I guess). The claim about "parts of larger works are put in quotes" is obviously a rule of thumb anyway rather than the grammar rule itself. Besides this, it isn't obvious to me that Star Trek is "a larger work" but some novels are part of miniseries which are slightly better examples (like A Time to Be Born.) Why should they be in italics? Here I don't have a great argument other than saying "everyone else does it". For example, Star Wars novels are placed in italics, (not to mention Star Trek novels when cited elsewhere - like Wikipedia) as are books that are clearly part of a larger work like The Fellowship of the Ring. As for episode titles, again, I have no argument other than saying that "it is the industry standard". I guess they are considered more like chapters in the story rather than the story itself.

The only thing left is individual comic stories. Here I was wrong before when I claimed that everyone puts them in quotes. Wikipedia doesn't have an official policy on it (though pages I can find seem to indicate quotes although the most common is The Amazing Spiderman #56 or whatever.) Memory Alpha doesn't mention comics on their style page either, but most pages seem to have quotes for individual stories (like [] indicates.)  As mentioned above, Wookiepedia has decided to put them in italics. I would be fine with that, though I think it doesn't make a lot of sense as individual comics seem to me much more like short stories and episodes rather than novels or series. But I would be happy either way (as long as we made a decision).

Is my proposal now clear? Do we need to go back to a largely forum to have more input? I agree with 8of5 that this should be solved now as we definitely want a unified format. Notice that this does leave several issues open. For example, how exactly should we cite the source? Do we list the same of the miniseries? Also, there are going to be judgment calls - The Space Between seems like a series (it has its own numbering) and usually one-shots like Avalon Rising are standalones and so more like a series than an individual comic, but there might be tricky questions about particular cases. But all that I have said above is about the actual grammar of what to do once you have decided what titles you want to use. --Jdvelasc 16:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)