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On the Enterprise in the first ST: Countdown, we had the crew of supernumeraries, which included Mr. Ku, Data/B-4, Ambassador Picard, General Worf, and of course Nero and Spock pursuing each other and whatnot. The fact that we have new histories for Data, B-4 and Picard means they are the conflict - however, we don't have cause the scrub info about Ku and Worf and Spock and Nero. Even though the sequence of events changed, we havent been shown they weren't involved - only Data/B-4 and Picard and the Romulan sun are really exceptions in this case. They will be revised, other topics do not need to be (at this time, until they are part of a contradiction) -- '''''[[user:captainmike|captainmike]]''''' [[file:wiki-wordmarkX.png|69px]] 03:58, January 28, 2020 (UTC) |
On the Enterprise in the first ST: Countdown, we had the crew of supernumeraries, which included Mr. Ku, Data/B-4, Ambassador Picard, General Worf, and of course Nero and Spock pursuing each other and whatnot. The fact that we have new histories for Data, B-4 and Picard means they are the conflict - however, we don't have cause the scrub info about Ku and Worf and Spock and Nero. Even though the sequence of events changed, we havent been shown they weren't involved - only Data/B-4 and Picard and the Romulan sun are really exceptions in this case. They will be revised, other topics do not need to be (at this time, until they are part of a contradiction) -- '''''[[user:captainmike|captainmike]]''''' [[file:wiki-wordmarkX.png|69px]] 03:58, January 28, 2020 (UTC) |
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| + | :Picard married Beverly Crusher in the novels - that's something that's probably going to need some work as well. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 03:39, January 30, 2020 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 03:39, 30 January 2020
| Ten Forward → Picard/canon changes (Reply | Watch) |
So, Picard has kind of thrown a wrench into the post-Nemesis timeline as established by the novels (and Online to an extent) in a major way. For example, the expanded media, 2387+, all hinged on Hobus having gone up, whereas the premiere episode of Picard states that it was the Romulan sun itself ("Eisn") that went supernova.
Especially with Picard still having another nine weeks to run, and the current novel timeline remains to be seen how it plays out - are they going to keep to Hobus or are they going to make a hard pivot to Eisn going up. Collateral Damage was the first novel set in 2387, to my knowledge, but there was *zero* mention or even abstract hint about Min Zife and all that hoopla in Picard, or even the soft-canon prequel "Countdown" comic. Plus, Picard stated that B-4 never "became Data" like he did in the novels and ST09 Countdown - Data's neural net failed to take hold and, subsequently, B-4 was disassembled and sent to the Daystrom Institute. Additonally, Picard himself resigned from Starfleet, in protest, in 2387-88 and retired to Chateau Picard.
Anyway, what all this is about is how is the Wiki going to handle the huge shifts story that Picard has undertaken?
Just throwing in ===Online Timeline=== doesn't quite seem like it's going to suffice. Banners or splitting pages off into "canon" and "expanded media", like Wookieepedia did after the 2014 reboot? --WTRiker (talk) 07:49, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
- A few years ago some users called upon the need for continuity notices but the project never went anywhere because the major continuities involved weren't competing with canon as there were no canon productions. We had gotten some work done but the project stalled due to that lack of need. Essentially what i had done was to start work on a banner system for opposing continuities. I'll resume all the work based on the discussions we had then.
- obviously Data and B-4 from the Countdown and novels will need a complete overhaul under the new system, so i'd caution against anyone trying to muddy the waters by deleting any material from those articles currently - that isnt the goal and wouldnt keep with policy of inclusion we worked on previously.
- in terms of Hobus vs. Eisn - i rather think a cascading supernova would cause both suns to explode. if previous worked out continuity has Hobus spread and destroy Romulus, it likely would also destroy the Romulan sun. there's lots of room for interpretation there until canon leads us otherwise
- also, PLEASE add a spoiler bar to the tops of pages with discussions like this. thanks. -- captainmike
10:32, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
- I've never heard of a supernova causing nearby stars to go supernova (that could destroy the whole galaxy!) and I don't like the idea of speculation being added to articles to explain continuity differences. I think all the Novelverse and STOverse stuff that is incompatible with Picard should go in an "Alternate timelines" section at the bottom of the article. The parts that are still compatible can stay in the main section.
- Are you referring to the Forum:Separating Sources discussion, captainmike? --NetSpiker (talk) 12:07, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
- According to both the Countdown comics both versions of the supernova will indeed spread through multiple star systems - and that was actually the whole premise of the Hobus supernova. Hobus is a different star in a different system that reached over across space to destroy Romulus -- from another system. how is that speculation?
- Yes, we had that discussion pretty well wrapped up - i had tinkered with a couple versions of boilerplate messages and subsectioning logic. i'd like to continue that work in the manner that was previously decided -- captainmike 12:38, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, we had that discussion pretty well wrapped up - i had tinkered with a couple versions of boilerplate messages and subsectioning logic. i'd like to continue that work in the manner that was previously decided -- captainmike
- It wasn't specified in the comic but right now I'm wondering why you don't think an explosion that could reach across light-years would have no effect on other stars it touches. I'm not saying its written that there is a defined effect, i'm challenging your supposition that it wouldn't have an effect. it obviously would. -- captainmike 13:19, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
- Applying real world astrophysics to the Abrams film's interpretation of a supernova is pointless. Countdown and other sources say the shockwave propagated through subspace, like what happened with Praxis, only on a much larger scale. Okay. Technobabble BS, but whatever. We don't know that it destroyed Eisn along with Romulus and Remus. We don't know that it didn't, either. In any case, it's a moot point for now, so how about just focusing on the task at hand? Dealing with separating the continuities as necessary. --TimPendragon (talk) 16:41, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
- It wasn't specified in the comic but right now I'm wondering why you don't think an explosion that could reach across light-years would have no effect on other stars it touches. I'm not saying its written that there is a defined effect, i'm challenging your supposition that it wouldn't have an effect. it obviously would. -- captainmike
- The canon version of the character should always take precedent, especially in sidebars. I would actually say there's no reason to put any information in the sidebar regarding conflicts. The article should list the info, too many people tend to think of the sidebar as the only relevant part of the article and its just not designed to hold that much information. You should definitely never do anything like what you just suggested -- captainmike
00:21, January 28, 2020 (UTC)
I've been testing code for some new types of boilerplate templates to contain places where continuity conflicts with other continuity and especially where it conflicts with canon. You're right, this discussion is off track, so when i have a completed outline, i'll present it in a new forum or talk page.
However, i think this sidetracked discussion illustrates exactly the problems with how people approach continuity. We have new canon stories which establish different chains of events for topics we catalog here, and understanding the range of topics we must change is what is being misunderstood. ST: Picard stated the Romulan system went supernova. ST:Picard did NOT state that Hobus did not go supernova. Other ST sources state that Hobus was a subspace (faster than light) phenomena of a type that was unusual and unprecedented. While we can't equate cause and effect that Hobus supernova caused the Romulan system supernova, neither do we have cause to erase information about the Hobus supernova
On the Enterprise in the first ST: Countdown, we had the crew of supernumeraries, which included Mr. Ku, Data/B-4, Ambassador Picard, General Worf, and of course Nero and Spock pursuing each other and whatnot. The fact that we have new histories for Data, B-4 and Picard means they are the conflict - however, we don't have cause the scrub info about Ku and Worf and Spock and Nero. Even though the sequence of events changed, we havent been shown they weren't involved - only Data/B-4 and Picard and the Romulan sun are really exceptions in this case. They will be revised, other topics do not need to be (at this time, until they are part of a contradiction) -- captainmike 
03:58, January 28, 2020 (UTC)
- Picard married Beverly Crusher in the novels - that's something that's probably going to need some work as well. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:39, January 30, 2020 (UTC)