Changes: Forum:Quotes in articles

Revision as of 14:32, 8 April 2021

Ten Forward → Quotes in articles (Reply | Watch)

I'd like to start the conversation regarding quotes in articles - someone's been proliferating these based on how they look on other wikis, but i'm not completely sure theyre working, the way they're being placed here.

That first point is because they're at the top of the articles, where we already have disambiguations, alternate reality disambigs, family disambigs and the sidebar. Is this really the best place to put an extra paragraph of text? I'd rather lead off articles with the sidebar and the introductory paragraph and then maybe pull a quote in later in the article, if at all.

Second of all, the quote template is really bare bones. It doesn't seem to have any formatting built into it - quotation marks, punctuation and links are all hand coded, even though theyre being inserted into the template. It would be much more economical on data entry formatting if it supplied its own marks and smarter links.

Please discuss -- captainmike 18:39, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

FYI, with the problems we are facing with excess templates at the TOP of each page, i am going to start removing the quotes to talk pages until they can be retooled to be placed in a more sensible manner -- captainmike

14:35, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Could you provide a link to an example?--Gvsualan (talk) 23:05, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Number One kind of bugs me, picking up on the Talosians' summation of her child-bearing capabilities is cringeworthy. So we have a problem where someone is not vetting the content well (i mean, why THAT quote?).

My main focus in starting the discussion was the layout issue - these are being inserted with <br> tags, so exchanges are stacking up in terms of 3,4,5 or more linebreaks -- and push down the rest of the article content. below the initial pageload on laptops and tablets. I think these need to go somewhere - anywhere - below the introductory statement of the article. we shouldnt be leading with these. -- captainmike

03:09, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Additionally, i have a problem with the nonfunctional template. why use a template to format these if a user is still going to parse these by hand with <br> tags? the {{quote}} template should access some basic parameters that eliminate that kind of manual override coding. we shouldnt be writing HTML overrides for something the template should stack for us. -- captainmike

03:14, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree on all points. Imagine if a Kirk speech were added atop the James T. Kirk page! Also, per our POV, even if I'm looking up a great orator, Abraham Lincoln let's say, I'd still expect that his article would lead with his background before presenting any quotes, so as to put them in context.

I haven't tried them, but do CapnVader's Dialogue a-b and Dialogue a-b-a templates handle breaks better? -- Meacott (talk) 12:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I haven't tried either but if there are similar codes functioning on other wikis, we can and should appropriate them for testing and putting them to full use. i'm willing to rubber-stamp my approval to having a consensus to make such a move and disallow the current quote additions.

as i remove quotes from page headers, i'll leave the {{quote}} template on them so they can be tracked for improvement by "what links here" - captainmike

15:01, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

One of the ways of formatting quotes I was thinking of having on Memory Beta would be configured similarly to how it is on the Game of Thrones wiki, except without the HTML stuff that it still uses. You can go to the Jon Snow article on the site if you need reference, it’s setup with three groups in a tabber: Spoken by Jon, Spoken about Jon, and Conversations. If applied on Memory Beta, depending on the article, probably have that section setup as a scroll box too. -- CaptVader (talk) 22:25, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm cool with leaving the quotes out. They look good on a lot of other wikis. On here, I feel like a quote should offer valuable information about the subject matter, and they rarely do that. Better to have an optional, "Relevant quotes" section further down the article. Imho. Kind regards, -- Markonian 14:32, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :My main focus in starting the discussion was the layout issue - these are being inserted with <nowiki><br></nowiki> tags, so exchanges are stacking up in terms of 3,4,5 or more linebreaks -- and push down the rest of the article content. below the initial pageload on laptops and tablets. I think these need to go somewhere - anywhere - below the introductory statement of the article. we shouldnt be leading with these. -- '''''[[user:captainmike|captainmike]]''''' [[file:wiki-wordmarkX.png|69px]] 03:09, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
+:Additionally, i have a problem with the nonfunctional template. why use a template to format these if a user is still going to parse these by hand with <nowiki><br></nowiki> tags? the {{tl|quote}} template should access some basic parameters that eliminate that kind of manual override coding. we shouldnt be writing HTML overrides for something the template should stack for us. -- '''''[[user:captainmike|captainmike]]''''' [[file:wiki-wordmarkX.png|69px]] 03:14, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
+::I agree on all points. Imagine if a Kirk speech were added atop the [[James T. Kirk]] page! Also, per our POV, even if I'm looking up a great orator, [[Abraham Lincoln]] let's say, I'd still expect that his article would lead with his background before presenting any quotes, so as to put them in context.
+::I haven't tried them, but do [[User:CapnVader|CapnVader]]'s [[Template:Dialogue a-b|Dialogue a-b]] and [[Template:Dialogue a-b-a|Dialogue a-b-a]] templates handle breaks better? -- [[User:Meacott|Meacott]] ([[User talk:Meacott|talk]]) 12:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
+:I haven't tried either but if there are similar codes functioning on other wikis, we can and should appropriate them for testing and putting them to full use. i'm willing to rubber-stamp my approval to having a consensus to make such a move and disallow the current quote additions.
+:as i remove quotes from page headers, i'll leave the {{tl|quote}} template on them so they can be tracked for improvement by "what links here" - '''''[[user:captainmike|captainmike]]''''' [[file:wiki-wordmarkX.png|69px]] 15:01, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
+:One of the ways of formatting quotes I was thinking of having on Memory Beta would be configured similarly to how it is on the Game of Thrones wiki, except without the HTML stuff that it still uses. You can go to the Jon Snow article on the site if you need reference, it’s setup with three groups in a tabber: Spoken by Jon, Spoken about Jon, and Conversations. If applied on Memory Beta, depending on the article, probably have that section setup as a scroll box too. -- [[User:CaptVader|CaptVader]] ([[User talk:CaptVader|talk]]) 22:25, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
+:::I'm cool with leaving the quotes out. They look good on a lot of other wikis. On here, I feel like a quote should offer valuable information about the subject matter, and they rarely do that. Better to have an optional, "Relevant quotes" section further down the article. Imho. Kind regards, -- [[User:Admiral Markonian|Markonian]] 14:32, 8 April 2021 (UTC)