|Ten Forward → Suggested Category Tree (Reply | Watch)|
I think we all agree that the categories on the wiki need some sorting out. So below I have added suggested category trees, and would love to know everybody's opinions. The provisional criteria for a subcategory should be ten articles, in order for it to be worthwhile.--The Doctor 13:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Well I started just by noting down my concerns, but that got abit long, so instead my own version is below. The main change is to reorganise it into several super-categories. -- 8of5 20:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I think maybe, I went abit overboard with getting everything into supercategories, but still think it's a good idea, we could have nifty little links to them on the front page, so something inbetween the two would be lovely. -- 8of5 21:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well my suggestion was just a modified category list from Memory Alpha, but after viewing your suggestion, I would agree that your would work better with placing all the articles into categories.--The Doctor 22:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- LOoks good to me but by any chance can a Klingon Culture category be added? -- Darth Batrus 10:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'd think so, there got to be enough on Klingons to fill it. I've already added Vulcan and Earth Culture categories, just havn't updated these trees. -- 8of5 18:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think there has been a number of articles that may warrant a Romulan Culture category perhaps? Darth Batrus 11:52, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'd say so, if we can't fill a category on the culture on one of the major species then something's gone abit wrong I'd say. There are in fact already five articles taged with a Romulan Culture category. -- 8of5 20:44, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
I was directed here to defend having a subcategory for Starfleet personnel below the rank of Captain. The Cdts, Ens, Lts, Lt Cdrs, and Cdrs all have more than enough articles to qualify as a subcategory. I think we should only list a character in that rank category if they were mentioned in a source as doing something at that rank. One of the things that drew me to this site was a the sub categories that allowed you manageably view similar characters (Cmdr Ljungberg 19:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC))
- Well Is support the removal of such categories, whilst there are more than enough potential members I think its overly obsessive to categorise by rank. Captain and Admiral are special high ranks which should be noted I'm quite happy to lump the rest together into Starfleet personnel and whatever position they have (as we do have cats for first officer, science officer, whatever else, etc). It’s fine for a character that turns up once as an ensign, but for lots of reoccurring characters which we’ve seen as they grow in the series and through flash backs and such at numerous ranks you just end up with loads and loads of categories listing rank for them.
- And not that we should let MA dictate our policy, but they don’t categorise by rank either, I think we’d be wise to follow there example in this case. -- 8of5 19:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- I think any further categorization of ~1000 articles in the starfleet personnel section is warranted when we can do it in an organized fashion. Outside of a dozen main characters, we won't have loads and loads of categories for most of the characters. (Cmdr Ljungberg 20:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC))
- Since no one has added any suggestions I am going to add the "Commanders" category for you all to see what I am suggesting. If I am voted down and it is deleted, then so be it. Hopefully this will convince you all. (Cmdr Ljungberg 17:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC))
- Sorry, but I wasn't aware this discussion existed here until i did some surfing. For reasons I explained at user talk:the doctor, i think some of the existing categories need tweaking -- the efforts up to this point have been superior, but there are some details that i want to fix. For example, I have already had "Category: Starfleet Commodores" eliminated, in favor of "Category:Starfleet commodores", a preferable capitalization in wiki framework.
- I wasn't aware there had been previous discussion of "lieutenant commanders" and "lieutenants junior grade" but I assumed these were overlooked, as there was already a "Category:Starfleet Rear Admirals" that was subordinate to "Category:Starfleet admirals". I'm sorry if I've undermined discussions or efforts to make a policy on these by recreating them, but I am dual-categorizing all "sub-ranks" so that you can see the person in both the "top-level" rank and the "sub rank" -- Captain M.K.B. 16:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've no real opinion on the example you just cited Mike but I do question double listings in general, for example, in your efforts your recently categorised Amekentra under Starfleet medical personnel and Starfleet sciences division personnel, is that really necessary, medical would assumabley be subcat of the sciences so unless the character is also known to have served in some other branch of sciences at some point I'd only feel it necessary to list under medical.
- I would even suggest the same reasoning for admirals and captains being listed under the command division cat.
- Also (dircted mostly at Mike, per his recent work), I assume you are making considerations for this, but keep in mind not every starship has a identified crew, so a category for each and every one would be inappropriate when some only have one or two potential members. -- 8of5 05:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
- Re: "sub"-ranks I've put a list on my userpage of categories that I assumed were needed, but i officially consider them "on hold" because of the reservations expressed here and the previous discussions. If i'd been directed to this discussion right off the bat, i would've stopped sooner -- but the only message sent to me was "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!" -- halting, but not exactly informative. I agree with the concerns involved.
- Re: "division" categories: divisions are shown by uniform color and insignia, while specialties and departments are not. while these are generally intuitive, there are many many cases of people who are qualified in all three divisions, as well as those who serve in four or five departments in their careers. you're right that solutions could be made to avoid dual categorization. the main thing i'd like to find a way to note is the exceptions -- the command division security personnel, the commodore(s?) and admiral(s?) who are not certified as command division, etc.
- Re: individial starship crew categories -- also a valid concern. there are some starship crew categories already created (not by me) that only have two members, with no possibility of any more seeming forthcoming. i was following this precedent. since your raised the issue, i was wondering if there in a lower limit for how many people should be involved before the ship gets a category for its crew. 5? 10? -- Captain M.K.B. 17:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- sub-ranks: I have no particular interest or knowledge of rank structures, so you guys who do use best judgement I guess, if there are enough candidates and the position is distinctive enough then go ahead have a category, my major concern when you start dividing these up is to avoid double listing, if there is to be a category for each type of admiral then each admiral should only be listed under their specific rank(s).
- divisions: If a character has multiple disciplines then sure they should be categorised under them all, but if they don't then I'd favour the most specific and only that.
- starship crew cats: There has been talk of minimum category numbers, as yet nothing really seems to have solidified, initially ten was suggested, some have argued that's too small and anything from five up has been suggested. Perhaps we should judge it on an individual subject, if there are 10+ articles for one cat that's enough, if there are less then ten then maybe ask, how likely is it that there will be more candidates anytime soon? A ship that had a handful of crew established in one novel, maybe not, one that you know has more for but don’t have articles for yet, sure. -- 8of5 18:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- The divisions might be more useful as list articles than they would as categories, but I'm still considering the situation.
- as to starship crews, i think that we'll find that many of the will have more than 5 or 10 -- especially the TOS Constitution ships for example. some of them have had more than 5 or 10 captains in all the various novels and comics theyve been mentioned! the real interest here is those that are referenced in multiple sources.. -- Captain M.K.B. 18:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Are we going to continue double listing on things like episodes, books and stellar catorgraphy. eg should say a Time to Sow... be listed just as a TNG book or as a TNG book and a book. And should every planet nebula etc also be under stellar cartography or just there respective subcategories? I'd be inclinded to stop double listing, it makes for some huge lists. -- 8of5 10:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that double listing can get extremely bulky. I would think that for things like Episodes we don't need anything in this category but subcategories. Maybe there are books that don't obviously fall under anything smaller, but there certainly won't be many. The only reason I can see for double listing here would be if someone thinks there is something very useful about having a single list of "all trek episodes" or something like that. I can imagine wanting to see that list, but not enough of one to double list all the episodes. Jdvelasc 22:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
New Additions to the Category TreeEdit
I think beyond the already mentioned 'Romulan Culture' category I was wondering whether there should be a 'Vulcan' category where we can stuff all the geographical locations of Vulcan.
Also, was wondering whether there should be a 'Wonders of the Galaxy' category to add the very unique things. I can see the Doomsday machine and the Dyson Sphere fitting in there. The only problem would be deciding what qualifies as a wonder as trek has quite a lot of things that could fit the category such as the genesis device and quite a lot of spatial phenomena. What do you guys think? -- Darth Batrus 10:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- Sure for the Vulcan, there’s plenty to fill that. Not so sure on the Wonders of the Galaxy, it's a nice idea but as you said it would be hard to decide what is worthy of being in it and all the examples you cited could already fit into pre-existing categories. -- 8of5 13:26, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- I think the Vulcan cat Darth proposes should have a more specific name (e.g., "Vulcan geography") so it isn't mistakenly used as Vulcan catch-all category. (Does anyone here really want to have to mass-revert the work of an eager-beaver newbie who thought he was helping? It's no guarantee, but it can pay to anticipate such potential problems.)--Emperorkalan 17:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
It's not reflected in the tree above as of yet, but right now the structure for subsections of "Animals" would be "Animals:Earth", "Animals:Qo'noS". One question is: Should we also have a cat for national areas, such as "Animals:Klingon" which includes animals from worlds within Klingon space (such as Boreth, which has a few named species) but are not native to Qo'noS? (Same for Romulans, Cardassians, etc., if there are enough to support a category.) Also, parallel cats for plants are not listed (there's be fewer subcats for this, but there would be at least the basic "Plants" cat.)--Emperorkalan 17:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- Unless there are an awful lot of candidates (there are a good number for the four sub-cats that exist) are such cats even necessary, I think good categorisation is important and useful, but for things like that why not just list the animals on the planet of origin. If it's significant in a species culture it should be noted somewhere on that species page, otherwise it's mention on the planet page should suffice. -- 8of5 17:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Well I was browsing around and Cardassia is a category so if he geography thing is added then I think Cardassia should be changed to perhaps "Cardassia Geography" same as "Vulcan Geography".
As for animals of other worlds, I think one of the main problems is if there are enough articles for them. Perhaps "Animals native to Klingon worlds" might help with that? Just a suggestion, but as already said, you could browse to the planets which have the fauna and flora secion for a 'detailed' look on what life it has if it has any mentioned in the books of course. -- Darth Batrus 22:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- I really don’t think categories for the biology of empires are necessary.
- As for geography categories, how about the generally planet cats which contain geography, natural history, politics, etc, then, if there are enough articles to generate a category use Emporer’s Main:sub system to make geography, animals, planets, etc subcats. --8of5 23:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Another suggestion for the category tree, I was checking through the government articles and noticed the category 'Federation government' which covers everything about the Federation government namely councillors, departments, starfleet branches etc etc. Anyway, do you guys think there could be a Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire and Cardassian Union categories that cover aspects of those states or perhaps their isnt much material for them? Just a thought. -- Darth Batrus 14:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- Good idea for the major races, maybe more open than just government, a general Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Empire etc cats which includes, maybe as subsections dependent on numbers, government, terrirotory, etc. -- 8of5 13:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- I hope you don't mind but I decided to move add several articles with the Starfleet or Federation categories to fill it up. I think personally things like research projects, intelligence operations, treaties, awards, diplomatic treaties, agencies, laws, titles and organizations for the Federation category and think similar things should be done for the Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian Empire categories. -- Darth Batrus 19:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Another suggestion as well, what do you guys think of an "Events" category with the "Conflicts" category being a subcategory of it? "Events" being filled by notable things in history like the Sundering and the Time of the Awakening or the Vulcan Reformation. Right now, if someone adds somthing like those, I'm not sure there is a category beyond the races culture one that it can be added in. Just a thought. -- Darth Batrus 12:09, 04 May 2007 (UTC)
I have been adding several articles to the "Romulan Star Empire", "Klingon Empire" and "Cardassian Union" category like the "Federation" and "Starfleet" ones. Just was wondering if anyone can make those first three categories as I added pretty much everything that would be relevant of those categories for those respective empires.
Also what do people think of an "Events" category? -- Darth Batrus 13:47, 04 June 2007 (UTC)