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This is a page to discuss the suggestion to delete sections of Star Trek: The Next Generation: Warped that do not merit their own individual articles.

Episode 08-001: Crushers Not Included
Episode 08-002: Lecture Circuits
Episode 08-003: Suggested Donation of Danger
Episode 08-004: Hair of the Synthadog
Episode 08-005: I Only Have Mitochondria for You
Episode 08-006: Transporter Madness
Episode 08-007: Quantum Dolphins
Episode 08-008: Rikerworld
Episode 08-009: The Final Sale Frontier
Episode 08-010: Deadly Cadence
Episode 08-011: Fertile Ground
Episode 08-012: White Face Paint and Black Tubing
Episode 08-013: The Lowest Decks
Episode 08-014: Terror-forming
Episode 08-015: Barclay's Day
Episode 08-016: Predators
Episode 08-017: Icy Hot
Episode 08-018: Hippocratic Style
Episode 08-019: Tashayarasha Tyar
Episode 08-020: Son of a Mogh
Episode 08-021: Time Fire
Episode 08-022: Controlled Burn
Episode 08-023: Pointed Threats
Episode 08-024: The Fun Enterprise
Episode 08-025: The Atrocious Mr. Quispy Bumpers
Episode 08-026: Werewolf-Wolf
  • If you are suggesting a page for deletion, add your initial rationale to the section "Deletion rationale".
  • To vote simply add "Delete", "Keep", "Neutral".
  • If you want to discuss this suggestion, add comments to the section "Discussion".
  • If a consensus has been reached, an admin will explain the final decision in the section "Admin resolution".

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Deletion rationale Edit

These are not fleshed out stories, but merely a collection of anecdotes from a single parody book. they should be merged into the parent article as having an individual article for each one is highly redundant. -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 12:42, February 26, 2020 (UTC)

Votes Edit

Discussion Edit

see talk:Star Trek: The Next Generation: Warped but place ongoing discussion here for consensus -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 12:42, February 26, 2020 (UTC)

They are complete stories, not merely "anectodes", which you can see for yourself in this preview showing the first three stories. Each story has characters, dialogue, a beginning, middle, end and in some cases, a secondary plot. What more can you ask for? Furthermore, each story has a minimum of 9 pages (some are longer), so they're not "a few pages long" as you have claimed in the talk page. Some of the New Visions stories are much shorter, but each has its own article.
Star Trek: Phase II: The Lost Series is another book with detailed summaries of non-existent episodes but each one of those episodes has its own article or at least a red link, so there is precedent for each Warped story having its own article.
Another parody series Starship Trekkers has an article for each story, so again, there is precedent for each Warped story having its own article.
I think it's important to note which characters, starships, races and locations appear in which story, and if the individual articles are merged, this information will be lost. --NetSpiker (talk) 23:47, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
Honestly, I agree with NetSpiker, provided that a clear distinction is made between parody and standard material, like we do between in-universe and real world material. --TimPendragon (talk) 05:49, February 27, 2020 (UTC)
Checking in. Anyone else want to weigh in? --TimPendragon (talk) 07:03, March 13, 2020 (UTC)
Just a couple points:
If the articles are merged, the information about the individual stories will not be lost. they will be merged into one article. not lost.
Also, while addressing the parody nature is important, it is not the main thrust of my concern with wanting these merged. the drive here is that this work is not needing of over two dozen individual articles. while the fact that it is a parody contributes to the fact that i think it should be deemed 'low importance', its also the procedural approach that each of these faux episodes doesnt need the article treatment as they all have the same author and theme, and can be more readily described in one article. each individual title is nonsensical and can really be described fully without being broken off. -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 12:04, March 13, 2020 (UTC)
So, what are you suggesting, that we have 26 character lists in one article? Followed by 26 locations lists, 26 races and cultures lists and 26 other references lists? Because that's the only way you can merge the articles without losing the information about which characters appeared in which story. Personally, I think that would be difficult to navigate.
And are you also suggesting to merge all the Phase II: The Lost Series episode summaries into the main article? Because you would have to do that to avoid being inconsistent. What about the New Visions back-up stories that are only 5 pages long? Since they have the same author (John Byrne) as the main stories, by your logic they shouldn't have their own article.
Despite your claim that their parody nature is not your main concern with wanting these merged, I believe that's exactly your main concern because you haven't attacked the Phase II articles or the New Visions articles.
I apologize if this reply comes off as too aggressive. I'm just frustrated that you've prevented me from continuing to create articles for the Warped stories. I consider these stories to be part of my personal canon because they are licensed and each story has at least one canon character in it. --NetSpiker (talk) 12:43, March 13, 2020 (UTC)
NetSpiker, two things: 1) whether they're your "personal canon" or not has no bearing on this discussion or this wiki, I realize this means a lot to you, but bringing that into it only muddies the issue. 2) New Visions isn't a good example, because while they're all by the same author (a fact that doesn't matter), they are separate stories written as independent works and published in a single volume.
Which brings me back to the topic at hand. Having finally been able to look inside the Warped book for myself, I have some further thoughts.
These are indeed synopses with bits of "background information" and a few "pull quotes" added, not full-fledged stories. They aren't telling an actual story, they're talking about "stories" that don't actually exist in any other form. These are parts of one whole work, not smaller works assembled and collected, as in an anthology. Under that definition, I would actually be inclined towards just presenting a list and short synopsis of each on the main article for the book.
But NetSpiker is right to bring up the issue of Star Trek: Phase II. Meacott has done extensive and well-written work on those articles, but I have concerns about their validity, because they're also based on synopses from an episode guide book, and not actual stories in and of themselves. Though they are talking about things that were independently written and exist (in some form) independently of the Phase II: The Lost Series book. But while the scripts for "In Thy Image" and "The Child" are included in the book, and can be considered "published stories" as such, the others cannot. So I wonder if they really shouldn't have separate articles here -- I think articles about unproduced episodes are more appropriate for Memory Alpha. If the scripts for all the episodes had been published, then I'd be okay with separate articles, because they'd exist as separate, published stories in a licensed work. But they don't. They're synopses of unproduced episodes, which is not functionally different than synopses of "made-up" "episodes," despite some attempt to form a "Phase II" continuity from them to support a single comic short story and a magazine about a concept model.
However, *if* the Phase II articles are appropriate here, then that would indicate that we can have articles about "the synopsis of a story." So if that's the case, that would apply to the "episodes" in Warped as well, and then taken to its logical conclusion, could lead to articles on each separate chapter of any episode guide. You can't have it both ways, and we need to be consistent. --TimPendragon (talk) 14:08, March 13, 2020 (UTC)
Regarding "26 character lists", etc. - a full fledged novel or episode has dozens (some hundreds) of characters in their character list - these synopses seem to only include a handful of characters each - is 26 subsections too many for an article? with only less than a dozen entries in each? not at all. Tim's admission that he sees these as below the threshhold of 'full' 'short story status' is telling to me. however, in terms of the Phase II stories - Phase II is growing, as we've seen a Phase II story published by IDW. i dont think the gimmick here - these are 'gag' stories - shows promise of the same growth. that's the only difference i see between the Phase II sketches and these (besides their parody nature). so i'd offer that in defense of the Phase II stories. otherwise, i'd say the un-expanded Phase II stories, the Starship Trekker installments and these all fall below a certain bar which means they arent full article status -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 00:15, March 14, 2020 (UTC)
TimPendragon, I mentioned my personal canon not to influence this discussion, but just to explain to you guys why these stories are important to me. I'm not sure why you think New Visions isn't a good example. A New Visions issue contains two stories, a main story and a 5-page back-up story written by the same author. They were never published separately, just like the Warped stories were never published separately. The only difference is the Warped stories are longer than 5 pages. What would you consider to be the definition of a "fully-fledged story"?
Captainmike, Phase II isn't really growing since we haven't had any new Phase II stories announced since that IDW story from 2017. And I don't think that should matter when deciding if a story deserves an article. The Myriad Universes stories each take place in their own one-story continuity that will probably never be expanded. Can you post a sample of what your planned merged article would like, so I can see if any information is lost or not?
I don't really understand the push to merge these articles. They're not hurting anyone and if you don't like parodies, no one's forcing you to click on them. --NetSpiker (talk) 01:55, March 14, 2020 (UTC)
NetSpiker, the Warped "episodes" sections aren't written as stories (either in prose or script form), they're written as summaries in an episode guide, like "in this episode, Picard says Hello to Troi and Worf gets a hangnail." They're not presented as stories, they're a fictional account of a fictional season, presented as a reference book. Not as a story. We don't have individual articles for sections of reference books. Warped isn't fiction as such. It's like a book report and not the book itself. Do you understand the distinction? I don't know how else to make it clear. New Visions, regardless of length, are stories. Heck, a story could be 100 words or less, and still be a story, if it's written as such. Warped isn't. --TimPendragon (talk) 05:12, March 14, 2020 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's the fact that the dialogue is presented as quotations at the end of each story, instead of within the story itself that's causing you to consider these as not true stories. I guess I just have a broader definition of what constitutes a story. Since season 8 doesn't actually exist, Warped still counts as a fiction anthology, even though it's made to imitate the style of reference books like the TNG Companion. I'm curious, would you consider the Star Trek Leaf card stories as actual stories? --NetSpiker (talk) 05:28, March 14, 2020 (UTC)

Those are a great find as we can explore adding them here - and I think the Leaf cards are a great example - because our current standards they would be grouped in one article about the card set and not with each card having a separate page. card sets have subsections about each card, not separate articles for each card -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 14:23, March 14, 2020 (UTC)

Additionally - i have mocked up a couple of subsectioned versions of the merge i propose. they lack summaries and perhaps some tweaking but it seems workable, they are live in the article now -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 18:19, March 14, 2020 (UTC)

NetSpiker, the dialogue has nothing to do with it, those pull quotes are just those. Quotes without context, that aren't part of a story. These chapters of the book are summaries, not stories. "Picard goes to the bridge, then assembles an away team and beams down to fight the bad guys" isn't a sentence you find in a story, it's a sentence you would in the summary about a story. If we are to treat this fictionalized reference work as a collection of individual stories, then every chapter of Federation: The First 150 Years and Hidden Universe Travel Guide: Vulcan, would each need a separate page, too. Phase II: The Lost Series falls under this issue, too. We can't have it both ways. --TimPendragon (talk) 22:13, March 14, 2020 (UTC)
Captainmike, I saw the sample of what your planned merged article would look like and I think it would be a horribly long article if the info from all 26 episodes are added to it (especially if someone decides to write a summary for each story), but I am reassured that no information will be lost. --NetSpiker (talk) 01:03, March 15, 2020 (UTC)
I don't think being long is a negative quality if the article is properly organized. As of the tenor of the discussion became somewhat expansive, i have backed off this discussion in favor of letting more users weigh in (bump) -- captainmike Wiki-wordmark 21:51, May 9, 2020 (UTC)

Admin resolution Edit

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