Talk: ISS Enterprise-D

Registry

In "Mirror Broken" #3, the registry of the ISS Enterprise-D was shown to be "NCC-1701-D". Since "Mirror Broken" is a more recent source (not to mention consistent with the canon portrayal of the 24th century mirror universe), as well as the fact that it's predecessors also had their registry start with "NCC", I propose that we rename the article. The Wikia Editor (talk) 12:15, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Alternatively, we set up a new page for the mirror "NCC-1701-D". Kind regards, -- Markonian 13:35, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Two points I'd like to make here:

1) The "canon" mirror universe has the Terran Empire defeated quite some time before the events of DS9, and "Mirror Broken" likely takes places not long before DS9. And since "Mirror Broken" depicts the Empire as still (barely) existing at that point, I don't quite see how it could be consistent with canon.

2) Just because one thing is named like "x" doesn't automatically mean all other things that look remotely like the first are also named "x".

Now, in the case of this ship "ICC" has been clearly and explicitly established as its registry prefix in an older source. Now we've got "Mirror Broken" clearly and explicitly establishing "NCC" as such. Ergo, we have a confict, which leaves us with two options:

1) Find evidence that one prefix supercedes the other. (Perhaps there are more sourcesthan just "Mirror Broken" that use "NCC", and I seem to remember only one source using "ICC".)

2) Declare both prefixes equal and move the page to "ISS Enterprise-D" over the currently existing redirect.

Either way, I suppose I'll go hunting for evidence. - Bell'Orso (talk) 13:36, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

I always keep an eye out for such things. Here's my evidence:

1) Sources for ICC: TNG novel "Dark Mirror", Kelvin timeline comics "Live Evil".

2) Sources for NCC (and NX): canon, ST: MU current continuity novels, TNG novel "Q@A", Shatnerverse "Spectre", TOS/EXC game "Shattered Universe", STO.

3) Other registries: NC, used by STO sometimes.

Addendum: We know from the DS9 relaunch novels and "Q&A" that multiple mirror universes exist. Some with extant Terran Empire. Also, of those continuities we know of, some where it fell differently or later (source: all Kelvin mirror comics). Kind regards, -- Markonian 13:55, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to clarify here that I'm looking for sources of the ISS Enterprise-D's registry prefix. As I stated above, just because the ISS Enterprise-E was explicitly stated to use the prefix "NCC" in the novel "Q&A", doesn't automatically mean that the same is true for the ISS Enterprise-D. - Bell'Orso (talk) 15:08, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

In terms of consistency with canon, the writers and artist of "Mirror Broken" specifically stated that they're adhering to the canonical depiction of the mirror universe in the 24th century. They're essentially exploiting the gaps in the canon (such as the fact that we never saw mirror Earth in the 24th century), in order to create this interpretation in which the Terran Empire still exists. It's stated within the prelude that the Empire is isolated within the Sol System and only those who reside or operate within close vicinity of the system are aware of its continued survival.

Unfortunately, the mirror Enterprise-D has only been depicted twice so far, leaving it up to our preference more than anything. The "NCC" registry is obviously more common within mirror universe stories and I'd prefer not creating a seperate article for what we can all agree is meant to be the same ship, especially since the difference is only one letter. The Wikia Editor (talk) 11:50, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

When you say that the ISS Enterprise-D has only appeared twice so far, I assume you mean that "Mirror Broken" was its second appearance (with the novel "Dark Mirror", which uses the "ICC" registry prefix, being the first one)? Because if you meant to say that "Mirror Broken" was the third, then I'd really like to find out what the second source was. - Bell'Orso (talk) 10:22, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I meant that it has only appeared in two sources so far, Dark Mirror and Mirror Broken. The Wikia Editor (talk) 13:05, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

It's spelled out on the ship in Broken 2 & 3. Exhibit A: . Exhibit B: . Kind regards, -- Markonian 11:26, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Page move

In order to consolidate the two continuities at play, the page has been moved to "ISS Enterprise-D"

In order to keep the discussion from going off course, i'll just say this name allows for both ships to be linked to via redirects using our accepted linking systems in the {{ISS}} template using both registries.

However, there's no need to ever posit that one source is "more recent" as a means of invalidating an earlier naming or alternate version. -- captainmike 13:38, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

To be fair, it is generally considered perfectly acceptable to use more recent sources if a contradiction occurs, with the exceptions being when the source contradicts multiple previous sources (such as when Federation: The First 150 Years stated that Kirk was born aboard the USS Kelvin, which contradicts numerous other sources from both before and since). With only two sources, the choice would be up to our preference more than anything. Something similar was done with the Kelvin timeline ISS Enterprise, whose current article name is based on the most recent source. Although personally, I would prefer for the article to be renamed "ISS Enterprise (alternate reality)". The Wikia Editor (talk) 19:19, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Well no, that's wrong. Contradictions are not something we're trying to settle by picking one over the other, but even if its a minor point where something is verifiably just a mistake that we're going to gloos over with other sources, we wouldnt choose to do so purely on the basis of the source being recent, sorry. -- captainmike 17:37, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

I kinda agree, in the sense that I prefer to harmonize sources as much as possible rather than having to pick one over the other. That being said, if a contradiction occurs, and can't be solved conventionally, then we have no choice but to pick and choose one, preferably the one that has appeared in more sources. The source being more recent wasn't my only argument. In any case, I agree with the current name, as it solves the current issue. If more stories get written later with the NCC registry, then perhaps we can revisit this topic. The Wikia Editor (talk) 19:55, August 26, 2017 (UTC)

Still not getting it. we have a policy in place that says we don't "pick and choose one". But yes, this article is now in good shape to reflect both sources -- captainmike 13:08, August 27, 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps "pick and choose" was the wrong word choice on my part. What I meant is that, when presented with at least two irreconcilable accounts, we basically have no choice but to accept one of them as being inaccurate. Case in point, we have one source claiming that Prime Kirk was born aboard the USS Kelvin vs. several accounts stating him to have been born in Riverside, Iowa. We accepted the accounts stating him to have been born in Iowa over the one account claiming otherwise. The Wikia Editor (talk) 01:07, August 28, 2017 (UTC)