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stars/star systems

Mike, what exactly is the policy towards stars and star systems as to naming of articles?--Long Live the United Earth 02:41, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure if we've codified any actual policy, but SOP (standard operating procedure) has been to use the most basic name (with no suffix or disambiguant) whenever possible... and add "_system" for systems, and, when star arity is known, to add "_(star)" for single stars with "_system" as redirect to that. for binaries and other multiple stars, the suffix "_system" always suffices (when disambiguation is required)... - Captain MKB 03:40, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
just to go on to complete categorization:
  • a single star with no known planets or orbiting bodies, and no companion stars = category: "stars"
  • referring specifically to a single star with companion stars (binary, trinary, etc) = category: "stars"
  • a single star with no other companion star and a system of at least one orbiting body = categories: "stars" and "star systems"
  • referring to the multiple/binary star system as a whole, not referring to any single star component = categories: "star systems" and "binary (or whichever) star systems"
  • referring to any star system as a whole, with an unknown quantity of whether or not it is a single star or a multiple = category: "star systems"
-- Captain MKB 17:42, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sound good Mike, I know you went through and corrected everything so I wanted to make sure I knew what was going on. Thanks!--Long Live the United Earth 06:18, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


Thank you with the help with the Jabilo M'Benga article, Mike. I've been away for a while and I'm just getting used to how everything works again, so bear with me. --The Doctor 17:47, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

No problem, Doc - everything you did looked spot on. I expanded some - and enacted a somewhat newer manner of subsectioning based on previous discussions regarding divergent continuities. Hopefully, it is sufficient for the mirror universe purists who began that discussion. -- Captain MKB 18:12, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

U.S.S. Spirit NX-79995

I've noticed that this ship isn't included in this wiki nor in memory-alpha. It is featured in Ships of the Line calendar of 2009. Why isnt it featured here?--Tempest Wing 05:03, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

"In the year"?

Mike, why are you adding "the year" to any information using a date? It's rather redundant as there is already a link to the year the event happens in. Additionally, it's rather unwieldy to read (or say for that matter) "in the year 2155" as opposed to "in 2155." Additionally I saw that you added decade on one page so it read "in the 2150s decade." That is even more unwieldy and unneeded that the year one. I realize that our goal is to link our articles together, but not at the expense of readability. So, why're you adding in unnecessary and unwieldy links?--Long Live the United Earth 18:02, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Just trying to be descriptive. As the numbers get higher, readers might not recognize it as a year -- editors of other media for years have taken this kind of step to clarify. A lot of standard literature will use some sort of descriptive prefix or suffix to establish that a number in question is in fact a year. When someone says "In 5700" or "in 867539", an inhabitant on the 1990s doesnt automatically think of these as years (as opposed to stardates, or even simply numbered locations)
I don't agree with you that they are unnecessary or unwieldy, sorry. A lot of the writing i see on certain wikis is impossibly simplistic, even in terms of basic statements that don't have complete thoughts or use so many pronouns and vague declarations improperly connecting incomplete clauses—to the point where no one knows what is being said. -- Captain MKB 18:13, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
I must admit I found it rather unwieldy at first, but it could be worst we could put "in the year of our lord 2156". :D However, I buy Mike's reasoning about clarity and happily towing the line as it were. Another one that used to annoy me was "in December of 2376" when in December 2376 would do, but I go with the policy, because its only going to be reedited again anyone so you might as well save the hassle. Then again, I'm just a confused working class Brit and leave all grammatical what-nots to those in the know. --The Doctor 18:30, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I could do without the "of" in that case, but I might be guilty of unwieldification of such things. The "in the year" thing is one of those things i might do at the first occurrence of a numbered year in an article, and then not repeat throughout. And yes, when Green Lantern's editors looked at the 5700 storyline, way back in the 60s, they changed it to "5700 AD" because otherwise, people had to guess the number was a year. -- Captain MKB 18:34, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

First, ley me apologize if I seemed rude in my first post, I was being kinda grouchy and I'm sorry. :/

Anyway, I don't neccesarily agree that readers are going to have a problem knowing a year is a year when they live in the 2000s and most dates are in the 2000s as well. (though if we do have something in 5700 I could see clarifying that was a year and not a stardate)--Long Live the United Earth 20:22, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

I can certainly see that Mike's suggestion with regards to the year makes a lot of sense. I'm not so sure about the decade thing because that does seem a little clunky to me. But, of course, I will go with the concensus. --The Doctor 20:28, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
I don't care either way on the "year" thing personally, but the "decade" one is really awkward. To my mind, if the sentence cannot be read aloud easily, then it needs to be reworked. I don't know a better solution that does include the word "decade", but the common English language practice and usage for listing a decade is to list the years such as "2250s". Otherwise, it would be the "sixth decade of the 23rd century," and that's just way clunkier. :) -- sulfur 20:42, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
I think most people can determine from context when a four-digit number is a year, at least within a range like 1100–2999, and especially in the modern and Trek eras. It's really only necessary to differentiate older or later dates from stardates (and we always say "stardate 1234" anyway). Eh, "in the year 2155" is fussy but not incorrect. I wouldn't bother myself, but won't stop Mike from trying. :p Although it may be clearer to readers who don't have English as a first language, which is a worthwhile goal.
But that "in the 2370s decade" construction is very cumbersome: "2370s" is plural, but "decade" singular. Compare it with "in the 2375 year": same construction, just as awkward, suggesting it should "in the 2375th year". Is it incorrect? If we think of 2370s as a list of numbers, then yes. But if we think of them as a name for this set of years... Let's call it War, for example, so we get "in the War decade" — that works. So "in the 2370s decade" isn't entirely wrong, but neither is it entirely right. We're going to naturally think of them as a set of numbers rather than a name.
Other ways of putting it are "in the decade of the 2370s" (very long), "in the 2370s years" (ugh), or "in the years 2370–2379" (has merit, but implies a range rather than some point within). In the end, with technical editor hat on, I'd have to recommend "in the decade of the 2370s" as the most natural, correct and non-ambiguous way of putting it. Or simply "in the 2370s", of course. -- BadCatMan 02:04, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Please see this

Please read this. -- sulfur 01:43, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Already responded, thanks --- Captain MKB 01:45, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Disambigs suggestion

I put together a suggestion for a small change to the way that we deal with disambiguating pages here, and I'd like to hear your input if you have any. -- sulfur 20:07, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


FYI, "Palmer" the Ambassador is currently at "Palmer (ambassador)". I've fixed links so that they all point to the same place. If we choose to move this to "Ambassador" later, a bot can easily fix these links (same goes for things like "X (ensign)" -> "X (Ensign)", etc. -- sulfur 15:49, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

This thing

Captainmike, we've reached a point where I feel I have to say something. We've thanked and congratulated each other's work in the past, where I found you to be a respectful and reasonable person.

But now, I'm just not comfortable with the attitude you present, not just to me, but to others as well. Your responses can be curt or patronising to the point of rudeness. On complex issues, you seize one side (even the wrong one) and argue it obstinately, apparently without conducting sufficient research into the topic, and often refusing to address alternative points, as though ignoring them. Then you make sweeping changes without waiting for discussion or resolution. It's been the same pattern with Talk:New Paris, Talk:Khesterex, and now Talk: Orion system, and so on. In these areas, I feel almost singled out as a target by you.

These are the same problems brought up by many other users back in the Forum:An Open Letter to the Memory Beta Community dust-up. I was new and didn't understand it then, but I really understand it now. Clearly, this is still a problem.

If by some remote chance I've offended you, please let me know. I don't want to get involved in politics or conflicts with you, I just want to write articles. Otherwise, please show me and everyone else here the respect and consideration we've tried to show you. -- BadCatMan 06:32, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

You're a solid editor, no disrespect intended. I've got no problem with you, but I -do- feel like you tend to lose sight of the big picture when someone has something to say to you. You're very focused on the Orion articles, and I am concerned that you don't see past that when we run into a conflict. The recent article was a complete mismatch with the name, but you're unable to take the simple criticism that you performed an improper move. I don't intend to disrespect you in any way, but you got defensive in the first line of your reply and needed to chill out. It colored the conversation. You're usually a sharp cookie on things like this--I had to back off of the Klingon situation because it took a bit for it to sink in that you'd read up a little more recently than I and were coming across with solid facts that I was unaware of. Don't take it as antagonism that I disagreed with you, and then found out you had more knowledge than I.
I'm not this wiki's chief "play-well-with-others" admin, I tell it like it is. Sometimes i'm wrong, but that why we have the discussions. It's not about you, I'm just trying to get through things with a minimum of discussion. I've nominated other admins from our crowd of "technical" editors so we almost entirely focus on nuts and bolts, and nobody's really stepped up as a 'goodwill ambassador' in cases like this. I apologize, we could use one. I know that other admins -are- taking steps to tone up their interactions to make sure we don't all have attitudes. I've seen one of our other admins sass the hell out of people on other wikia, but here he is more reserved because he probably knows that my sass and his sass would over-sass the wiki. It's not about you.
You haven't offended me by having these discussions in the past and I apologize if you feel like the friction is about you.
In terms of the open letter, that is old and forgotten. It -does- offend me that you bring it up. It's bullshit, it's past, and no one fucking cares about what last year's vandal attack has to say about me. Forget it, I have. Wikia central contacted me regarding the situation and basically told me i need to ban people more often - those who get that overly hostile and personal like that. I took it as a good time for a fresh start when the parties involved grew up a little and got off the wiki without anyone having to take such drastic actions. -- Captain MKB 14:22, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
I disagree that my first line there was defensive. I phrased and rephrased to make it as non-confrontational as possible, but tone doesn't carry well online without a lot of lame smileys. :-) You raised a problem, I was about to write a response to explain my reasoning, then discovered you'd already renamed it and began cutting bits out, which I found annoying, a seeming lack of interest in actually discussing it. Especially when I'd very recently made some edits and you might expect me to be online for a swift response. I tried to politely point this out, then continued. Your statements, like "Listen, I corrected a problem, this article never...", "Period. No amount of outrage on your part", bolded text, and trying to tell me what a star system is came off as aggressive and patronising, which is where I had a problem with you. If I sounded defensive, it was because you sounded offensive.
I also disagree that I couldn't take criticism here. Beyond repeating your system/planet confusion and stressing Pi-3 Orionis, you weren't clear on what the problem actually was. I had to discover and point out my own mistakes regarding the ordering of the introductory sentence and the categories that I felt really screwed it up. I tried to explain my reasoning on the potential Rigel connection (why this might not be Pi-3) and my intent to develop a system page, but you never really acknowledged these points, so both of us just said the same damn things over and over.
I run an online community myself and have often had to moderate disputes between users over one thing or another. And you know what, I hate having to do it. I'm sure you'd feel the same way. (I do believe you're very first person to respond reasonably, so cudos. :) ) In this sense, I feel like a patient and experienced diplomat, and I'll step away a day to think a response over and deliver it calmly. I'll also take the opportunity to admit that I'm territorial over my pet subjects ("No! I wanted to do some Doctor Who pages!"), a random and scattershot editor, and an obsessively cautious perfectionist. I'm also patient to the point I haven't been paid in seven weeks. I was protective and cautious here, but I'm sure you would be too if you'd sorted, written and rewritten six different versions of the Rigel system. :-o
Then I really do apologise for bringing that thing up then. Whatever sparked it was before my time or outside my area. But I was reminded of it and looked it up to get some kind of handle on this conflict. The statements in the second-last paragraphs gelled with the impression I was getting here and now. Clearly, I wasn't only one to feel aggrieved.
Maybe we're just completely misunderstanding each other. By all means, let us debate issues of articles, but let's not let it grow into arguments. -- BadCatMan 02:47, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
I think we just have a misunderstanding here. I didn't expect you to be online writing a response, and I was rushing to make the Pi3/O-system article the simplest and most literal interpretation so that we could evaluate the bits that weren't tidy in the conglomerated article, and piece them out to a more logical flow between the handful of topics that are conglomerated together (perhaps the way it was originally, it was more of an "Orion origins" article, not "system" or "(planet)"). I didn't appreciate the suggestion that I should have had to wait for a response to the attention tag before doing so either, as I was hoping that, by creating the simplified literal interpretation, it would give you clear way to expand upon it.
Saying that I was in the wrong by doing so definitely killed my buzz and made me feel like you were being defensive of the pet project - that's why i overexplained the points needing correction. Sorry if it seemed like I was harping or condescending, but saying that i should have waited for discussion before correcting an obvious inefficiency still seems backwards to me. Articles are open to be edited, especially when there was a clear course to be taken where a title didn't match the associated content.
Now that we've slowed it down, we can examine: i found that the Star Charts "Orion system" had zero references saying "here is the homeworld star system of that species" - it seems more to me like it was named on the map with that intention in mind, but no other licensee ever followed through - making it an evolutionary dead end towards researching the species. You pointed out that some licensees say 'their origins are ambiguous' and there is the strong suggestion that Rigel is the home system. In my eyes, this freed up the name "Orion system" - since the "Orion home system" was, at least in one valid source, Rigel, and not at all named "Orion system".

Orion topics

I locked it as is because I don't feel we had a chance to fully examine what i just hashed out in the previous paragraph when you started bulking up the 'system' article. Now we have the three topics (Orion system, which is Pi-3... as well as Orion home system and Orion (planet)) ... I suggest we go reference by reference and figure out all the "on Orion" and "at Orion" references and see if we can make these work and decide the final use of each name based on the final result of sorting the references. Maybe the "on Orion"/"at Orion" occurrences will all seem ambiguous enough to make us try the Orion origin route and have an article that does have the conglomeration of "we're not sure where this all is". I do feel strongly though that, unless we have a solid reference to their home system being strictly called "the Orion system" (as opposed to "the Orions' system", etc.) -- unless we find this, that we keep the "Orion system" reference to the Orion system from star charts. If we find a reference that there is an "Orion system" that -isn't- Pi-3, then we should get on disambiguating, according to whatever differentiateion we can find to add to the name. -- Captain MKB 03:11, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I wanted to divide them up and show you a tidier version, but didn't have a better place to put the information than on its existing page. Okay, I'm picking out a few references back on Talk:Orion system that we can go over piece by piece. -- BadCatMan 03:41, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
From the non-Orion species aspect of Orion, I think I have gotten through all the Orion sector planets, and am going to populate the systems as well. In larger astronomical expansion, i think orion constellation is pretty well fleshed out, but the bit about the atypical Orion Arm might do better merged into Orion Arm's article. -- Captain MKB 03:49, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
I almost put in on Orion Arm, even began writing it there, but decided that Orion constellation was the better home for it, since it pertained directly to the constellation. I thought I'd made it pretty clear, even came up with a real-world match. Is more explanation needed or would it be better on a disambiguation page? -- BadCatMan 04:10, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
I think we have a case of a stronger real-world association present. If you map out the galaxy, the larger Orion Arm structure does contain within it the general expanse of the Orion constellation -- and therefore contains the smaller Orion Arm. -- Captain MKB 04:19, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
And the Sol system contains Earth, but we wouldn't merge them (no, we've been through that). The galactic Orion Arm also contains Sol, and by extension and most maps, the whole Federation. Which is very strange when the Federation was once willing to let the Klingons have the whole Orion Arm, and the Federation's Rigel Demilitarized Zone Commission considered "making the entire Orion Arm a demilitarized zone under the authority of the Orions". That's a very odd conclusion.
The description given closely matches that of aspects of the real-world Orion constellation: hot suns, ionized hydrogen gas clouds. This constellation Orion Arm is clearly an entirely different structure, in size, position, and make up, unrelated to the galactic Orion Arm bar simple galactic geography.
I think the FASA authors simply confused the Orion constellation with the Orion Arm. They may be utterly mistaken on astronomy, but their error produced its own solution here. -- BadCatMan 06:21, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
The Sol analogy doesn't quite work. Earth has some well defined boundaries, but everyone recognizes it is part of the Sol system anyway. The boundary definition presents cause to create a separate article, and the sources clarify which one is part of the larger other.
I'm not quite sure that the current consition is even permissable - simply in terms of naming conventions. to continue using analogy, you're taking an article about zucchini and putting it into an article about jumbo summer squash because you personally find the similarity appealing. The equation of the mini Arm with the constellation is pure speculation - no source clarifies this. And an interested reader who reads about the mini Arm will type in the name "Orion Arm" anyway when linking. To take the Sol analogy further, this is like taking information about "Sol's inner planets" and putting it into Sector 001 and deleting it from Sol system. My main concern is that you've gone ahead and speculated too much with this link between the Arm and the constellation, and are burying the information in a place where it is not useful to the wiki. It's a bit much to just arbitrarily "decide" that they must have meant something else, and use your own name for something, disregarding the valid sources. I think the merge will be satisfactory to explain the difference anyway. -- Captain MKB 23:12, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
Mike, you're doing it again making early, unilateral decisions about something you're mistaken. :( And, yes, I'm annoyed. Remember what you said about being wrong on the khesterex? Please thoroughly read what the galactic Orion Arm is, what the Orion constellation is, both here and on Wikipedia, and read what I wrote about the constellation Orion Arm. This isn't speculation, this is astronomical fact. -- BadCatMan 23:30, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
... Astronomical fact that isn't borne out by the source - all the sources agree that it is called the Orion Arm and the explanation you wrote works just as well in the new location.
I've not only read what you recommended me to read, I've been reading it for years. You are absolutely right, there is good reason to believe they are referrring to that area of space.
This isn't a unilateral decision, it is an application of policy. Our naming conventions aren't super complicated, and they give us a fair bit of leeway, but you've gone beyond what can realistically be expected to be valid here. This mini-Orion Arm is probably part of the Orion constellation, but taking one thing and shoehorning it into an article about another thing we think is related is not what we're doing here. Perhaps it even deserves a third article of its own.
Maybe you should cool off, stop responding to me when you are annoyed, because it is abrasive to me personally to have you blaming me because you are annoyed that you can't make up your own way of doing things. This isn't personal to me or you, it's how things work here. -- Captain MKB 23:43, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
I did suggest making a third article for it. Which you ignored.
I've tried to be reasonable and patient, but you continue to be difficult and provoking. You seize the wrong side of a problem to make a big stink about, and it's starting to looking like a vendetta against me. I no longer have confidence in you as chief editor (or whatever it is) and would like a third party to examine these issues. -- BadCatMan 23:55, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
A third party? Bud, you can get a third party to look at these articles any time. They each have talk pages, which you are free to post on. Right now, you're posting on my personal talk page. Who did you expect to answer posting on my talk page? Every other admin has a talk page, your fellow editors have talk pages of their own, articles have talk pages. You chose to come here, post at me = you get me.
I'm not chief anything. Your really do need to cool down - I don't find it "reasonable or patient" to be posting nasty little barbs like this on my talk page.
Really now? Amazing, I thought that you had "seized the wrong side of the problem" ... ;) -- by making such a wrong move as moving all the info about "Yellow Peaches" and moving it to "Yellow Squash" because you thought one might be able to fit inside the other. Take a second and look at it that way. It's a complete non-sequitur no matter how many astronomy books you want to find to explain it. It's a stretch.
I'm not disagreeing to invalidate your supposition, but at the same time, it's not the only possible answer. It bears repeating and it makes sense, you've written a note and I find that to be a superior piece of information - good job. But changing out the article's title to something not 100% proven to be related is just not happening, from a standpoint of policy that kind of requires we use the real name in the source, not the thing we've concocted to replace it.
Regardless, I missed your suggestion about the third name. "TLDR", as they say - it's a bit difficult to find the good info here with all the "you're difficult and provoking and you make me annoyed" type comments. I apologize, of course - We're here on my personal talk page, so I'm focused on all the personal notes you've left about how sad you are that your view on this doesn't conform to the standard operating procedure of how to name things on the wiki, and how I'm not doing it right by correcting such non-sequiturs.
I support moving the information to a third article, I find it to be a great solution. Good job. -- Captain MKB 00:14, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
Don't be obtuse. We're talking about this here because you began the conversation on the Orion Arm here. If we want to get someone else involved, by all means we should take it to the relevant Talk page.
I'm going to make a new Orion Arm page as I suggested. Otherwise, I don't desire any further communication with you. -- BadCatMan 00:38, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


Thank you for reminding, whent back and fixed them.--Captain riggs 01:56, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

By the way next time you send an image could you please put it to a thumb size, THX in advance--Captain riggs 11:46, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
i'm not sure what exactly you mean. -- Captain MKB 21:05, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Deleted Article

Thank you for deleting a page i created and not even mentioning it to me even if i did state on the talk page that you could ; all that all i asked for is that you let ME KNOW. I mean it's just really disrespectful.I'm sure you can come up with a bunch of good reason why you did but still.--Captain riggs 04:53, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Oh here's another article i wrote Absorption you might want to delete that one too.--Captain riggs 04:56, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I didn't delete any pages you worked on. One was under the wrong name and I moved it to a new location. You need to calm down, you're doing fine here and we're willing to work with you to correct the problems with your writing. Work on the problem with your attitude too. Thanks -- Captain MKB 20:23, March 18, 2012 (UTC)
Yes you are right i sincerely apologize to you. I was out of line and reading myself just now i'll say kind of childish. I truly hope their are no hard feelings. Take care of yourself friend.--Captain riggs 17:22, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Arken Star System

Hey there sorry to bother you but could i get your opinion on this, Talk:Arken system, when you have a minute.Thanks--Captain riggs 15:06, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Image format

Yeah i noticed afterwards that i mixed Interplay with Ultra Games, Thx for fixing some of them, i fixed what was left, as for the format of screen cap those are just the pics that i had from an old play trough so i didn't really give any attention to the format but i'll try to just go for the square setting on the gallery options, does that sound like a good solution ?,

PS: Thx for all the tips you're hooking me up with, sorry if i gave you an extra workload wasn't my intention.--Captain riggs 14:12, March 28, 2012 (UTC)


Hi could look up User:, deleted a summary to replace it with "eat my caca", on the Earth Spacedock article, creating article with no format whatsoever...Anyways not sure this his the best place to mention him but you seem like a very active Adm on here so i just tought i let you know.--Captain riggs 19:09, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Disambig cleanup project

FYI, my first pass on this is now complete. I went through every single disambig page and cleaned up incoming links, ensured that they had a "(disambiguation)" redirect if they were a base page, and if they weren't that they were linked from the base page.

I've got about 35 pages that have odd incoming links (ie, aren't going to the right places) to work through still, and then the incoming links portion will be done.

My next pass on them is going to be to ensure that they're all formatted in the same (simple) way, adding descriptions where possible. With that will come attempts at ensuring that each page linked from those disambiguations is also linked from a novel, comic, episode, video game, etc. so that it is easier for a user to create or expand articles.

Much fun, much joy, but wanted to give you a note about what I've been up to. :) -- sulfur 14:54, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Solid work. it is appreciated to put these in order at long last. -- Captain MKB 17:43, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

copyright violations

 Thanks for notifying me about that. 
Sorry about that big time blunder,
but I saw so many pages without proper photos 

I decided to upload a whole set of them. To help fill in the blanks.

When I thought I was be helpful was technically a blunder. 

I will be more aware the next time.--17001017 18:45, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Image file name

Sorry but after getting your message i went back and i can easily say that 85% of the file i uploaded, since you initial message in November are three or four words long, so if you're gonna trip for one file i didn't rename properly you give me the impressions of having an issue with file names and even if the name is short you always seem to find a good reason to rename a file. I don't think you ever really happy about file names.--Captain riggs 02:16, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

i ain't trippin, yo'. just try to follow the guidelines i put down for you. -- Captain MKB 02:17, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Jeanne Vinueza

Hi Captain Mike. Thanks for sorting out the career part of the character box. I didn't really like how I'd left it, but didn't have time then to make it more logical. Also, I'm curious about the amendment you made to her year of birth. While not incorrect, the 2220s decade seems too long a timespan. In Reap the Whirlwind set in early 2266, she's described as nearly 45, putting her year of birth in, or just before, 2222, hence my circa 2222 description. Of course, you may know something I don't, after all her age could be made more ambiguous in a different novel? Anyway, I just thought I'd ask. Thanks. -- Cyfa 09:06, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

She's "nearly 45" which means she could have been born in 2222 or 2223. By saying "she was born in the 2220s", I am being completely accurate -- both those years are "in the 2220s". Perhaps you can introduce an indented italicised note into the article explaining that these are the years we narrowed it down to. -- Captain MKB 15:47, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. Thanks. -- Cyfa 17:48, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Can't remember how to redirect, Can yoy tell me how again. --TimeTraveller34 15:18, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Removing edits from edit histories

Just FYI, it's not a bad thing to remove vandalism or spam edits from edit histories in the way you have, but to remove legitimate edits because of "excess edits" is not exactly acceptable under the terms of the licenses that we use when each of us submits edits to the site. Strictly speaking, the only edits you can (in those cases) remove are your own.

Just to let you know. -- sulfur 16:36, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

The ones i was chunking through were a bunch of my own - thirty in a row - i removed them out of sheer embarrassment over multiple edits.
I'll keep in mind about those of others -- Captain MKB 16:37, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Delete Category


Could you delete the category that says Neutral as i accidently pressed save before i deleted it properly.

--TimeTraveller34 19:07, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Related videos module

Hi There, I posted this the other day and wanted to make sure you and the other admins saw it. Please let me know if you have any questions! Cheers, --Sarah (help forum | blog) 17:25, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Category additions

I was looking through some of the additions by this anon, and I'm not totally convinced that all of those categories really need adding to every page that they're being added to. Your thoughts? -- sulfur (talk) 18:08, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

I have been on the fence about replacing one with the other in terms of "characters" and "individuals" (seems to be the same thing with a bit of POV diff.), but in either case of preferring one over the other, i think that if there is at least one other 'persons'-style category, neither of these is called for. For example, a person with an unknown species, profession, title, etc. might be a character/individual, but if that person is a humanoid or scientist or lieutenant etc. then the character/individual category is not necessary.
have been observing those edits, and i figured it would be easy to audit 'characters' and 'individuals' for such cases and decategorize all to which the above proviso applies. i was hoping the anon would fade away without there being a need to confront them regarding this, and just revert them all through, but they're pretty persistent -- Captain MKB 18:27, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

For me, the same goes for the "species" one. Not all of those things appear to be actual species, and many of them are already in a sub-category of species, so do they really need to also be in "species"? -- sulfur (talk) 18:32, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Way back in 2007 or so i had proposed 'races and cultures' intending to deprecate 'species' and it was agreed to. in most cases it makes more sense, as the term 'species', as you aptly note, fails to accurately describe multispecies cultures (like the Borg), subcultures or subspecies (Augments, Romulans, Remans, Aenar, etc.) and just plain old non-biological associations (Borg again, Q Continuum, androids, nanites, etc.). -- Captain MKB 18:36, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

USS Sovereign

Hello. Can I put myself as Captain of the USS Sovereign? Seeing as how I DID play AND finish the game? Meste17 (talk) 18:48, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry, no. Millions of people have played Bridge Commander, so it would be a little unfair to list only one of them on the page. The character of the captain is never named in the game, so according to our policy on sources, it is an unnamed character. -- Captain MKB 18:50, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Top of Recent Changes page

Hey Mike, I used to know how to adjust the links at the top of the Recent Changes page and have since forgotten. Could you point me in the right direction? there're a few things I'd like to update.--Long Live the United Earth (talk) 05:14, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

I always forget the link - i found it by clicking 'what links here' on one of the policy pages linked from there... it's mediaWiki:recentchangestext and there might be a couple of sub-templates in that. -- `Captain MKB 18:29, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it!--Long Live the United Earth (talk) 18:41, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages

Disambiguation pages should, by their nature, show the actual links wherever possible. They are there to assist not only readers, but editors. Thus, they should be (whenever possible) the barelink (or a formatted version thereof), and include any extra text to disambiguate them in the descriptors after the initial link. Check out most of the disambiguation pages I've worked on over the last few months for examples. -- sulfur (talk) 19:44, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

See this link for an example. -- sulfur (talk) 19:45, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Anon reversions

Mike, mind explaining why you insist on reverting my edits? -- 20:47, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

I revert edits by anonymous users all day long; sometimes because they are against our policy on style or content, some because they are misinformed, others because they are plain old vandalism and abusive behavior. Since you're nothing but an anonymous number, i apologize if yours do not stand out in my mind and memory... -- Captain MKB 22:25, August 27, 2012 (UTC)
If you follow the link in his signature, you can see all of's contributions. It's a handy feature. -- BadCatMan (talk) 05:27, August 28, 2012 (UTC)
Not really interested in doing so, thanks though, for pointing out something i've known for almost a decade. -- Captain MKB 08:48, August 28, 2012 (UTC)
Just to be absolutely clear, an anonymous user can come to me and ask about any specific reversion, but asking me to review and critique a user's entire history is not a realistic use of my time. If i reverted your edit on a specific article, use that article's talk page to ask the question. If i reverted your edits on ten articles, then you have ten questions to ask, don't you? -- Captain MKB 21:47, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

Photo Sources

I've read what you said about you said about the photos i have uploaded recently. Some of the photos i've found have come websites. I have one question, how do list a internet source on this wiki?.--CC-1990 (talk) 16:33, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

The website you find them on is not part of the issue.
If images are from a Star Trek episode or book, you need to list the episode they are from as a standard citation, and the copyright belongs to the company that produced/published the source. The image of a Star Trek comic is copyrighted by DC Comics or WildStorm Comics or Marvel Comics, et cetera. The images from episodes are copyrighted to Paramount Pictures.
Is there some problem with your upload menu? theres a very simple list you can select from while uploading, you've been ignoring it. -- Captain MKB 16:35, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Starship Trekkers


So about the articles I created relating to Starship Trekkers. You removed them from categories on the basis that the story is parody and doesn't take place in the Star Trek universe.

Now, while I grant you that it is clearly parody, there is nothing within the story to suggest it doesn't take place in the Star Trek universe. The characters are silly and unlikely, but that's irrelevant. A writer may include a silly and unlikely character in his new TNG novel, for example, and we would still have to include it here (as I understand it).

I do not believe that being a parody precludes also taking place in the Star Trek universe. For example, Erin Esurance is a character from a promotional flash game on the Esurance website. They put their own mascot into a game, which is clearly meant to be taken with a lighter tone (basically a parody itself). Information from that game, however, has been added to categories, etc.

When I was deciding whether to write the articles, that was my precedent. That, and the fact that my understanding was that, unless the source specifically says that it's not part of continuity somehow -- and it doesn't, I checked -- it's a licenced Star Trek work and shouldn't be treated any differently than other works.

Anyway, the characters are purported to belong to Starfleet, on the starship Armitage. Though some of them bear similarity to TNG characters, they're clearly not the same characters, and this story takes place after Encounter at Farpoint. There's nothing about the story -- besides it belonging to the parody genre -- that conflicts with any other story, that I can see.

Anyway, that's my argument in favor of such articles. Thanks a lot, Xaqimorp (talk) 21:04, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

In response to your message on my talk page recently, I just wanted to say thanks a lot! I'm glad to hear it. All of that was very nice of you to say, and I'm also glad to hear that I'm understanding the rules well, and it's also good to be involved in communicating about these things. Again, thanks a lot!
Xaqimorp (talk) 07:59, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


Hey, long time no talk. Over at STEU, we're in the process of replacing a lot of the rank images with Kuro's new system, which drastically cuts down on the number of images required. Instead of having individual images for every possible rank/division combination, the backgrounds and ranks are separate images. Thus, for officer ranks (ENS-CAPT) instead of having eighteen different images (three divisions with six ranks each) you'd only have nine images (three divisions, six ranks total). All it requires is the Superimpose template, which is quite easy to use, as you're no doubt aware of. I'm bringing this to your attention in case you might be interested in implementing it here. It won't be able to cover every image you guys have since you have stuff that Kuro hasn't done, but it's a far more efficient system, apart from the fact that images must be replaced manually. So far, ENT, early TOS, TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9, AGT, 29th century and the early 2009 Trek ranks are done. Take a look and browse around STEU to see what I'm talking about. Also, don't hesitate to start editing over there again. I've noticed that in the two years I've been absent, our editorship has dropped off drastically and we could really use good editors back again. --Kevin W.Talk to me 21:46, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Updates to related videos module

Hi, I just posted this blog post about the related videos module. I wanted to make sure you saw it. Let me know there if you have any questions. Happy editing, --Sarah (help forum | blog) 20:01, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

2270s uniforms

Archived conversation

Raw rank sheet

Hi Mike, thanks for uploading that raw rank image sheet from "Domain of the Dragon God!", it'll certainly prove useful with this article, especially the information about the Class A uniform with blue used for senior officers, beige for junior officers and dark blue for flag officers. Thanks once again :D. --The Doctor 09:24, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

No problem! I figured it would give you some hints in figuring out the sheet you were working on.
Canon has some wierd details on the blue/beige system -- after all lowly Lt Ilia wore blue but Lt. Cmdrs. and department heads all Sulu, Chekov & Uhura wore beige.. which is odd, meaning the seniority referred to transcends simple rank in some manner.
Also, some reasoning is that the flag officer tunic might be a dress uniform, meaning lower ranked officers could wear a variant -- i think a post-TMP comic strip bears this out. -- Captain MKB 11:02, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed about the messed up blue/beige system, as Ensign Omal/Vaylin Zaand also wore a blue uniform. Perhaps the blue uniform was an alternative uniform for junior officers with the standard being beige, at least when it comes to bridge officers, as Omal and Ilia were the only junior officers to be seen wearing them.
Thanks for the tip on the flag officer/dress uniform thing, I'm searching for the TMP era comics at the moment, so hopefully I can track it down. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the US comic strips printed in the newspaper, but I know they used the TMP uniforms for a while. --The Doctor 12:47, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
Dress uniforms use the light-blue variant so the sleeves and epaulets are the same. -- Captain MKB 13:59, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
Another note, commodore probably is available for all divisions (recall Cdore. Stocker & Stone)
Also, epaulets for ranks above Rear Admiral seem to be from Kuro's imagination, and not a licensed source (unless Kuro was working from a licensed source i'm not immediately aware of) -- Captain MKB 14:05, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, the comic strips (US and UK) can be found online, here. :) --8of5 15:14, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

sleeve insignia.

Thank you both for the assistance on this. I think I'm done with the shoulder insignia now, but if Mike wouldn't mind looking over the image to the side for the possible layout for the uniform sleeve section. Thanks once again. :D. --The Doctor 00:58, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
Looks good to me -- to add: there's also a white class B in play in a few variations. i was never quite sure of the differences of the dark brown/lighter brown/olive brown variations, so i might think about consolidating some of those, but i'm not sure enough to make a solid statement about those right now.
i'm wondering if any of the brown or white ever got sleeve stripes, but that falls under the same "i wonder" category as the higher admiral's ranks. i guess we just keep our eyes open for these possibilities... -- Captain MKB 01:13, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for looking at those for me Mike. Yeah, I forgot to add the white sleeve into the class B uniform for command officers before I did the screen grab. As for the olive green one, I used it to represent the green work uniform which would be used for planetary personnel as described in the "Dragon God" pages, which is where the light brown/dark brown class B's for technicians also came from. At first I never saw the distinction, but sifting through the screencaps you can see the various types, but as you say, maybe one brown is enough as there really isn't that much difference. Thanks again :D. --The Doctor 07:49, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

New conversation

2270s ranks.jpg

Can you or someone else give me a brief rundown of the meaning of the various uniform colors? Those ranks are probably next on the agenda for getting cleaned up over at STEU and I'm not sure I've got the arrangement of the uniform colors right. --Kevin W.Talk to me 06:16, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

The best canon/licensed literary source is from what i think is the 10th issue of the 1980 marvel comic, domauin of the dragon god. there is an info page in the back
(you are referring to the Motion Picture ranks?)
otherwise, the motion picture and the movie ranks are pretty close, but they dropped science/orange and engineering/red when moving forward and switched some meaning of yellow/grey. -- Captain MKB 17:36, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
No, I'm not talking about the shoulder division colors. Those are clear enough. I'm talking about the actual uniform colors - the blue, white, black, beige, etc. --Kevin W.Talk to me 17:59, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
thisimage is linked to our discussion, on my archive page apparently: File:Sleeve_insignia.jpg
and the discussion User_talk:Captainmike/archive_2010#Raw_rank_sheet -- Captain MKB 18:57, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
Oh boy, this is a lot to go through. --Kevin W.Talk to me 19:27, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I guess what I'm curious about is which ones are Class A and which are Class B? Knowing that should make it possible to sort everything else out. --Kevin W.Talk to me 19:32, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
Talk:Federation Starfleet ranks (2270s)
From the terminology in the comic, class A is the tunic with separate pants and sleeve stripes. class B is the jumpsuit with no sleeve stripes and epaulets on the shoulders. the jumpsuits had all the colors but the tunics seemed to only be blue or beige - but there were (leisure/technical) white tunics that were epaulet uniforms. so only blue and beige are sleeve striped. -- Captain MKB 22:01, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
Alright, sounds good. Thanks for the clarification. On a related note, are you sure you've got the admiral's uniform (or is it the dress uniform, I don't know) color right? I've looked at the HD screenshots and it doesn't seem to be black. Then again, it's difficult to tell with screenshots of any kind anyway. --Kevin W.Talk to me 22:22, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
The admiral's dress uniform should be a slightly darker blue-gray than the standard blue-gray class A/B/dress. not sure where you're seeing it black. -- Captain MKB 22:26, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
File:2270s_cmd_radm_sleeve.png looks black to me. Maybe it's just me. --Kevin W.Talk to me 22:40, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
Looks gray to me, but monitors are always different everywhere.
Yeah, user:the Doctor used a Kuro set for this one, and a disappointing one at that. fuck-ups like this are why i prefer to make my own images. -- Captain MKB 22:47, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
I think (not totally sure) the TMP ranks will be the next ones re-done and Kuro has been working pretty hard to make adjustments for accuracy with the new versions of the ranks. Of course, the problem with the TMP ranks is that there is a dearth of material to work with to derive the images from, especially since not everyone has access to the same non-canon stuff that further depicts the era. Obviously we've had our discussion about adding the new ranks to this wiki, so I won't rehash it, but when those new ranks come out, I'll give you a heads up so you can come over to the STEU to see if the ranks are to your liking. --Kevin W.Talk to me 22:51, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, so let me review what I think I've got so far: all officers can wear blue, but ensigns, lieutenants and lieutenant commanders can wear beige (what I believe corresponds to "cream" in Kuro's color nomenclature). Enlisted can wear beige, brown and black. What's the significance of the different colors, anyway? --Kevin W.Talk to me 01:48, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

The comic's simplistic explanation is true - i think it was supposed to be 'senior officers' vs. 'junior officers' but the parameters were confused by Lt. Ilia wearing blue versus Lt. Cmdrs. Sulu & Uhura wearing beige. Might be some kind of seniority in terms of service length or even some kind of 'excellent service' (kind of like how Navy ratings can wear a different color service stripe for having a good record). Of the senior staff, all were department heads and its a mixed bag between command/line officers and staff officers so those could be ruled out, unless its a combination of multiple of the above factors. -- Captain MKB 02:08, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
I think what I said on STEU was beige is bridge officers, while blue is command officers. I guess for fanon purposes that should work going forward, though of course I'll re-arrange the rank table in line with what's been discussed. Have the significances of the various colors of enlisted uniforms been established? --Kevin W.Talk to me 02:25, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
The white uniform seems to be for technical personnel, but only by inference can i say that. Other than that... :\ -- Captain MKB 02:30, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
Ugh. This is why I've gone through the trouble of creating a full rank system for my fanfic. I hate how so much has been left ambiguous in canon productions. It makes things difficult. --Kevin W.Talk to me 02:34, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Image Warnings


Captainmike, I thought i listed enough information on the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion book cover image i contributed. I mean i practically said that it was the cover of that book. what did i forget to mention in my source!?--CC-1990 (talk) 22:42, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

You need to identify that the copyright license belongs to the publisher! List the name of the publisher in the {{imagesource}} copyright template, or just select it from the drop-down menu when you are uploading. The menu is marked "licensing". Why is that so difficult? -- Captain MKB 22:45, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

TOS collar ranks

Is there a canon/semi-canon basis for the non-captain ranks or were they just extrapolated? --Kevin W.Talk to me 21:06, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Extrapolated. -- Captain MKB 18:58, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sandbox DPL page

Hope that you don't mind, but I twiddled with the DPL a bit as I cleaned stuff up. The Who's Where issues are completely and (in theory) properly cited now across the board, same goes for Left Hand of Destiny, with two exceptions -- neither of which I could find in a quick skim.

I've done up all of the Avatar ones that were already marked with "minicite", and when I have a bit more time, will begin working down the list that's not yet marked with minicite mentions. As such, feel free to not go through that list adding the minicite bits, as it just adds a wasted edit along the way. :)

I'm hoping to be able to get to those items by Thursday evening (it being Wednesday morning at the moment here). -- sulfur (talk) 16:27, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

awesomesauce, thanks for sorting them. -- Captain MKB 21:12, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Issue 15

Issue 15 of the ongoing series is called Mirrored, Part 1. It says on the cover.

Anonymous-- 16:29, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Sulfur confirmed this for me on the issue's talk page. -- Captain MKB 21:20, December 2, 2012 (UTC)
Well, why don't you fix the page that is supposed to be about that comic book issue. Oh and Issue 15 has been released.Anonymous-- 19:14, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I haven't had much editing time lately. sorry. it certainly can and should be fixed to reflect the title and current status. -- Captain MKB 20:11, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well, why not try to find some time in your schedule?--Anonymous173.57.37.111 19:08, December 4, 2012 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do. -- Captain MKB 20:20, December 4, 2012 (UTC)
All right! I am running out of patience. What is taking time away from you fixing that page?--Anonymous173.57.37.111 21:31, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
We're all on a team here - any logged in user could move the page. This has nothing to do with me. Since we all are volunteers who work for free, tasks move along at their own pace. There are comics that were released in 1967 that are still incomplete articles on this site. -- Captain MKB 22:05, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
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